SU-57 deployed to Syria

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
Senior member
Senior member
 
Posts: 316
Joined: 24 Jul 2018, 10:39

by knowan » 18 Jan 2019, 08:39

Gee, who could have predicted this outcome?

https://thediplomat.com/2019/01/serial- ... east-2020/


Elite 5K
Elite 5K
 
Posts: 5319
Joined: 20 Mar 2010, 10:26
Location: Parts Unknown

by mixelflick » 18 Jan 2019, 16:26

knowan wrote:Gee, who could have predicted this outcome?

https://thediplomat.com/2019/01/serial- ... east-2020/


So they're slow walking the airframes destined for the "2nd stage" engine.

What this tells me is that there's going to be no easy, "swap out" for this new engine. That is, using the same airframe... they just install the new engine and go flying. Now of course it's going to take testing to get it right, but it also suggests it's a lot bigger deal than perhaps previously thought. You didn't see the US Navy stop producing TF-30 powered F-14's, while awaiting more powerful motors. There wasn't a new inlet design that needed to be put into place, etc.. No, you had some of those same aircraft swap the TF-30 for the more powerful GE F-110's when it was ready.

I don't get the sense it'll be that easy on the SU-57. Which means a lot longer test period, and holding off on any substantial airframe buys until the new engine is truly ready. We already know the inlet design needs work, at least from a stealth perspective. Dealing with that might be small potatoes vs. airflow issues given the much greater thrust and supercruise they're trying to accomplish. 2025 might be do-able, but I think 2027 - 2030 is a lot more realistic.

Opinions?


Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
 
Posts: 795
Joined: 25 Jul 2016, 12:43
Location: Estonia

by hythelday » 18 Jan 2019, 17:32

I am fairly certain they won't modify the inlets in any way at all.


Senior member
Senior member
 
Posts: 316
Joined: 24 Jul 2018, 10:39

by knowan » 18 Jan 2019, 18:04

The plane needs a lot more work than just the inlets, but I think late 2020s is much more realistic than the latest projections coming out of Russia.


Elite 5K
Elite 5K
 
Posts: 5319
Joined: 20 Mar 2010, 10:26
Location: Parts Unknown

by mixelflick » 20 Jan 2019, 15:41

They will make something of it, there's too much national pride at stake. And Putin's a big fan, so that needs to be taken into consideration as well.

But as a mass produced item it's doubtful, in fact they said it wouldn't be. Then left the door open for maybe it would, if "the rest of the world" catches up to their SU-35S, LOL. But honestly, by the time the engine etc is ready it'll arrive at 5th gen status, once the world is fielding 6th gens...


Elite 2K
Elite 2K
 
Posts: 2309
Joined: 27 Feb 2008, 23:40
Location: Serbia, Belgrade

by milosh » 22 Jan 2019, 00:52

mixelflick wrote:So they're slow walking the airframes destined for the "2nd stage" engine.

What this tells me is that there's going to be no easy, "swap out" for this new engine. That is, using the same airframe... they just install the new engine and go flying. Now of course it's going to take testing to get it right, but it also suggests it's a lot bigger deal than perhaps previously thought. You didn't see the US Navy stop producing TF-30 powered F-14's, while awaiting more powerful motors. There wasn't a new inlet design that needed to be put into place, etc.. No, you had some of those same aircraft swap the TF-30 for the more powerful GE F-110's when it was ready.


There will not be new inlet! It will have radar blocker,which is mentioned in couple of Sukhoi patents. Radar blocker isn't present with 117 engine because it is part of new engine. New engine is also important for rear RCS because its nozzle have much smaller RCS and probable smaller IR signature then classic nozzle( new one is fattier plus have something which look like cooling ports) :
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/TlkKATsijzU/hqdefault.jpg


Elite 1K
Elite 1K
 
Posts: 1154
Joined: 28 Sep 2009, 00:16

by vilters » 22 Jan 2019, 16:23

They are gonna use the most sophisticated Russian tools to get that thing going no matter what we say, think or do.

Some random pliers, some torn screwdrivers, some rusty hammers, some rolls of duct tape and a gallon of superglue.
Then paint the thing pink and call it 7th gen to spook the crows. (Who will drop out of the sky laughing anyway).

While the levcons are actually a good idea? ? ? My barn doors have better hinges.

But?
As usual, they'll shine at airshows.
(Replacing molten engines every time they put air in the tires.)


Banned
 
Posts: 2848
Joined: 23 Jul 2013, 16:19
Location: New Jersey

by zero-one » 23 Jan 2019, 18:35

This may sound stupid for a lot of people but does the Su-57 have RWR?
I went through the avionics of the Su-57 (granted it was only Wikipedia) but I couldn't find it.
The Himalayas system is ECM? can it perform RWR? If not, then that means that the only long range detection method of the Su-57 is via Active radar


Elite 2K
Elite 2K
 
Posts: 2309
Joined: 27 Feb 2008, 23:40
Location: Serbia, Belgrade

by milosh » 23 Jan 2019, 18:44

zero-one wrote:This may sound stupid for a lot of people but does the Su-57 have RWR?
I went through the avionics of the Su-57 (granted it was only Wikipedia) but I couldn't find it.
The Himalayas system is ECM? can it perform RWR? If not, then that means that the only long range detection method of the Su-57 is via Active radar


https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.word ... fa-russia/

Himalayas [RWR] – ESM


Banned
 
Posts: 2848
Joined: 23 Jul 2013, 16:19
Location: New Jersey

by zero-one » 23 Jan 2019, 19:40

milosh wrote: :cheers:

https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.word ... fa-russia/

Himalayas [RWR] – ESM

:cheers:


Elite 2K
Elite 2K
 
Posts: 2309
Joined: 27 Feb 2008, 23:40
Location: Serbia, Belgrade

by milosh » 23 Jan 2019, 20:40

zero-one wrote:
milosh wrote: :cheers:

https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.word ... fa-russia/

Himalayas [RWR] – ESM

:cheers:


:)


Active Member
Active Member
 
Posts: 159
Joined: 10 Jul 2016, 15:27

by collimatrix » 24 Jan 2019, 13:25

zero-one wrote:This may sound stupid for a lot of people but does the Su-57 have RWR?
I went through the avionics of the Su-57 (granted it was only Wikipedia) but I couldn't find it.
The Himalayas system is ECM? can it perform RWR? If not, then that means that the only long range detection method of the Su-57 is via Active radar


On a fifth-gen fighter the line between RWR, radar, ECM and IFF is blurred, since an AESA can perform any of those tasks. The SU-57, by reports released thus far, will be no exception. The electronics probably won't be quite as compact and efficient as those in the F-35, but by the reports thus far, they are designed to work in broadly the same way.

That said, RWR is of fairly dubious value for long-range targeting, at least against airborne targets.


Senior member
Senior member
 
Posts: 316
Joined: 24 Jul 2018, 10:39

by knowan » 24 Jan 2019, 14:20

milosh wrote:
zero-one wrote:This may sound stupid for a lot of people but does the Su-57 have RWR?
I went through the avionics of the Su-57 (granted it was only Wikipedia) but I couldn't find it.
The Himalayas system is ECM? can it perform RWR? If not, then that means that the only long range detection method of the Su-57 is via Active radar


https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.word ... fa-russia/

Himalayas [RWR] – ESM


Given Russian electronics inferiority, it is unlikely the Himalayas is a very good ESM either; it is likely equivalent to Western 1990s systems at best, but probably more similar to 1980s systems.


Elite 2K
Elite 2K
 
Posts: 2309
Joined: 27 Feb 2008, 23:40
Location: Serbia, Belgrade

by milosh » 24 Jan 2019, 18:31

knowan wrote:
milosh wrote:
zero-one wrote:This may sound stupid for a lot of people but does the Su-57 have RWR?
I went through the avionics of the Su-57 (granted it was only Wikipedia) but I couldn't find it.
The Himalayas system is ECM? can it perform RWR? If not, then that means that the only long range detection method of the Su-57 is via Active radar


https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.word ... fa-russia/

Himalayas [RWR] – ESM


Given Russian electronics inferiority, it is unlikely the Himalayas is a very good ESM either; it is likely equivalent to Western 1990s systems at best, but probably more similar to 1980s systems.


2000s if you look antenna technology (AESA to be precise). I don't know any western ESM which use AESA antennas in 1990s, maybe I am wrong.


Senior member
Senior member
 
Posts: 316
Joined: 24 Jul 2018, 10:39

by knowan » 24 Jan 2019, 19:56

milosh wrote:2000s if you look antenna technology (AESA to be precise). I don't know any western ESM which use AESA antennas in 1990s, maybe I am wrong.


The sensitivity of the antenna is more important than being AESA or not, as is the other components. It uses an Elbrus processor for example.

I freely admit to having little knowledge of these topics, but to the best of my understanding, Russia is still decades behind the West in related eletronics fields.
I also admit I probably exaggerated the relative technology of Himalayas by a few decades; access to Western technology has allowed the Russian technology base to catch up a fair bit since the end of the Cold War, just not completely.


PreviousNext

Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests