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Re: Gripen News

Unread postPosted: 16 Jun 2021, 17:52
by XanderCrews
hornetfinn wrote:
XanderCrews wrote:Warren buffet said never ask a barber if you need a haircut. Its not a surprise that the group offering a non LO option thinks LO is "dead"-- I'd play that card too. The problem is no one believes them. Boeing doesn't play that card because it would make them look brain-dead. The Euro competitors, China and Russia are all moving toward LO across a myriad of platforms.

Remember the heady days of the late 2000s when Saab saw the Gripen NG as an actual F-35 alternative, and thats never actually happened. Every time an F-35 competes against Gripen E, Gripen loses.

The F-35 has about a dozen export nations, the world's premier air arms, and a who's who of industrial powerhouses behind it. Gripen E has Brazil.


Exactly, although Boeing definitely tried to play that card:
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/04/07/boeing-growler-eclipses-f35s-stealth-advantage.html

"Stealth is perishable; only a Growler provides full spectrum protection," states one of the slides in a briefing given by Mike Gibbons, vice president of F/A-18 and EA-18G programs for Boeing, in a not-so-subtle dig at the radar-evading, fifth-generation jet made by Lockheed Martin Corp.


I like how somehow competitors like Saab and Boeing always seem to claim that stealth means you can't use electronic warfare and stealth means significantly added costs and increased maintenance needs. Maybe somebody should show them basic radar equations which show that jamming power directly competes against RCS. Or that LM offer for Finland includes just as many fighters as Boeing and Saab offers. So much for the cost advantages for 4th gen jets... :roll:

I also find it very funny that Saab is involved and invested own money in the Tempest FCAS project, which will be a 5th generation stealth fighter jet and which will enter service by 2040 or so... Why if EW is the way to go... :roll:


Oh indeed. in many ways this got settled in the early 70s. EW simply wasn't enough and it still isn't now. Boeing is hamstrung by at least some of its claims, It can't look out of touch with the rest of the world in the way that Saab claims that stealth is obsolete in the separate realities of Sweden and Brazil, which aren't a part of our planet somehow.

Boeing wants to land future contracts, and those contracts will have LO. They can't beat the anti stealth drum too hard, and of course to this day I have no idea why the X-32 was designed to be LO when that wasn't necessary... You'd think they would have pitched something very different knowing what they "know" about the "perishability" of stealth


Image

"remember guys if we win this contract, then 5th generation stealth is the only way, but if we lose it, then LO is a perishable thing, and our fighters that don't have 5th generation capability are just as good"

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Tale as old as time.

Re: Gripen News

Unread postPosted: 20 Jun 2021, 15:43
by XanderCrews
pron wrote:Saab had it's annual Gripen seminar this week. You can watch the video, or download a PDF. In the Q&A session they repeat that stealth are "dead" as usual. :D



Someone should tell Dassault

Image

Now I'm not wearing my glasses and I'm still kinda drunk from last night, but boy oh boy is hard to not think that looks not only Stealth, but close to an F-35.

Image

Re: Gripen News

Unread postPosted: 21 Jun 2021, 14:33
by ricnunes
That Dassault design seems like it came from a Japanese Anime/Manga :mrgreen:

Re: Gripen News

Unread postPosted: 23 Jun 2021, 06:04
by linkomart
ricnunes wrote:That Dassault design seems like it came from a Japanese Anime/Manga :mrgreen:


Patchwork on the surfaces makes it look like it´s from CATIA V4 and imported to V5.
Could be, when I visited Dassault in 2007 they still used V4 in the early phases.

my 5 cent.

Re: Gripen News

Unread postPosted: 23 Jun 2021, 07:35
by hornetfinn
linkomart wrote:
ricnunes wrote:That Dassault design seems like it came from a Japanese Anime/Manga :mrgreen:


Patchwork on the surfaces makes it look like it´s from CATIA V4 and imported to V5.
Could be, when I visited Dassault in 2007 they still used V4 in the early phases.

my 5 cent.


LOL, very true it looks rather dated. Maybe they haven't received an upgrade from Dassault Systèmes... :wink:

Re: Gripen News

Unread postPosted: 23 Jun 2021, 09:12
by linkomart
hornetfinn wrote:
linkomart wrote:
ricnunes wrote:That Dassault design seems like it came from a Japanese Anime/Manga :mrgreen:


Patchwork on the surfaces makes it look like it´s from CATIA V4 and imported to V5.
Could be, when I visited Dassault in 2007 they still used V4 in the early phases.

my 5 cent.


LOL, very true it looks rather dated. Maybe they haven't received an upgrade from Dassault Systèmes... :wink:


True, but I should perhaps evolve my thoughts a little.
V4 vs V5 is a dated CAD program, but it is still very powerfull and better than many competitors. The surfaces are not really good for later stages (like CAM integration) but it is stable and can take small deviations better than V5.
When I was there they told me they use V4 because it was intergrated in to their other early design tools. It is a big job to do that integration so they hadn´t done the integration yet.
Dassault might well still have the early design tools in V4, I don't know, but even so, It will be more powerful than some competitors tools I've seen.

My 5½ cent.

Re: Gripen News

Unread postPosted: 14 Jul 2021, 15:53
by XanderCrews
There has still been no official movement or inquiry into Brazil's second batch of Gripens...

Re: Gripen News

Unread postPosted: 15 Jul 2021, 14:27
by mixelflick
XanderCrews wrote:There has still been no official movement or inquiry into Brazil's second batch of Gripens...
"

Perhaps they're waiting on the new mystery Russian single engined stealth, due to fly at MAKS in less than a week? That would seem to be a long shot however, as it will be 5-10 years from the word go. "Never" seems to be the most likely date for an operational jet, provided you look at their Mig-35/SU-57 progress.

It may just be they're now realizing... they bought a turkey?