F-16.net

You haven't been paying attention to the myriad threads and sources over the years, if you've never heard of F-35s (and F-22s) engaging in and dominating 4th generation aircraft, in WVR BFM engagements.

I'd second that notion..

Once the public starts to see a dedicated F-35 demo team performing maneuvers other aircraft can't match, the criticism will begin to melt away. This of course, will bring up "which other aircraft"?

The American airshow audience is used to seeing F-15's, 16's and 18's. The F-35 will look demonstrably better. Now in terms of Russian birds, it gets a little more tricky... The SU-35 demos I've seen are VERY impressive. Less so though, if you consider the subtle nuances. Such as the ability to maintain power/speed into vertical after a 9g turn. Or its 20% better acceleration than most Flankers and still 10% greater than the SU-35. That's hard to demonstrate. The general public isn't this discerning. Nor is it possible to demonstrate how given its stealth, most of these maneuvers won't be necessary as it sneaks up on its quarry silently. There are others...

SA is difficult if not impossible to demonstrate in an airshow routine. Likewise for it's E/W prowess. Or its ability to generate a false target. Or its ability to target SU-35's with say, other aircraft's AMRAAM's or an SM-6. It has so many of these "hidden" advantages that it can't or won't show people, it's a real shame. But we know they're there.

Combat is the real test. And on that score, the F-35 is built for combat - not airshows.

I think one must remember that air shows are just that....air shows. Demo guys spend countless hours in and out of their birds practicing a very precise and coordinated flight plan. Many use a blend of cobbled together music to time out their demo routines.
I think what you will find is that these demos blend in a bit of showmanship with aircraft performance. But these routines are far from “ unrestricted”. Many air shows have very strict disciplines that must be maintained as to viewer safety......

My thoughts

Oops, wrong topic, can one of you fine gents put this under the EF manueverabilty thread please.....

wrightwing wrote:You haven't been paying attention to the myriad threads and sources over the years, if you've never heard of F-35s (and F-22s) engaging in and dominating 4th generation aircraft, in WVR BFM engagements.

But that wasn't the question.
Yes we, as in us, people who really go deep into research and people who have actually served and are serving have been keeping tabs on the growing number of pilot testimonies that atest to the F-35's close range combat prowess.

But the question was how would your average Joe who still thinks the Su-35 is the best gun fighter ever because of TVC, unlabel the F-35 for being a plane that can't turn, can't climb, can't run.

honestly no amount of testimonies can erase that faster than a 5 second clip of an acrobatic airshow stunt.