New details about F-22 upgrade
- Elite 5K
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Give the amount of $ they're spending, I imagine the F-22 fleet will be around for quite a while. Possibly out to 2040 or later, depending upon if there are delays in the F-47.
They've got a warm production line in the F-15EX and F-35, but neither really compare (air to air). Yes, I know F-35 fans will argue but it's unlikely USAF would be spending $ like this, if there wasn't some "there" there. There is some secret F-22 sauce the general public doesn't know about.
They've got a warm production line in the F-15EX and F-35, but neither really compare (air to air). Yes, I know F-35 fans will argue but it's unlikely USAF would be spending $ like this, if there wasn't some "there" there. There is some secret F-22 sauce the general public doesn't know about.
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- Elite 2K
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Some news about F-22 upgrades.
https://breakingdefense.com/2025/11/in- ... mics-says/
The F-22 successfully controlled an MQ-20 Avenger as a demonstration for CCA operations in October 2025. So this appears to be a stepping stone for integrating the FQ-42 with the F-22.
https://theaviationist.com/2025/11/18/l ... st-sensor/
Also, the Gen III TacIRST sensor, which is part of the Infrared Defensive System (IRDS) that replaces the current AN/AAR-56 MLD and is similar to the F-35 DAS in some ways, has flown. Lockheed Martin is on contract to install these starting next year.
What’s interesting, is how this will play with the F-22’s new Scorpion HMD that’s being integrated, and first coming to the Hawaii ANG squadron. The Scorpion HMD is a color display monocle, that can display sensor imagery to the eye, and that’s been done for targeting pods when used by the A-10. From what I’ve heard, the TacIRST on the F-22 will be more for missile warning and threat detection and targeting, but not project the imagery itself on the helmet like with DAS.
https://www.twz.com/air/f-22-raptor-fin ... ed-display
Still, the Scorpion HMD is a huge leap, and currently the next best thing other than the F-35 HMD. While it’s a monocular rather than binocular, the Scorpion HMD is a color display, much lighter than the JHMCS, and directly compatible with NVGs instead of needing a separate module with JHMCS, and very good tracking accuracy. In fact, all USAF and ANG F-16s are replacing the JHMCS with the Scorpion HMD as well.
https://breakingdefense.com/2025/11/in- ... mics-says/
The F-22 successfully controlled an MQ-20 Avenger as a demonstration for CCA operations in October 2025. So this appears to be a stepping stone for integrating the FQ-42 with the F-22.
https://theaviationist.com/2025/11/18/l ... st-sensor/
Also, the Gen III TacIRST sensor, which is part of the Infrared Defensive System (IRDS) that replaces the current AN/AAR-56 MLD and is similar to the F-35 DAS in some ways, has flown. Lockheed Martin is on contract to install these starting next year.
What’s interesting, is how this will play with the F-22’s new Scorpion HMD that’s being integrated, and first coming to the Hawaii ANG squadron. The Scorpion HMD is a color display monocle, that can display sensor imagery to the eye, and that’s been done for targeting pods when used by the A-10. From what I’ve heard, the TacIRST on the F-22 will be more for missile warning and threat detection and targeting, but not project the imagery itself on the helmet like with DAS.
https://www.twz.com/air/f-22-raptor-fin ... ed-display
Still, the Scorpion HMD is a huge leap, and currently the next best thing other than the F-35 HMD. While it’s a monocular rather than binocular, the Scorpion HMD is a color display, much lighter than the JHMCS, and directly compatible with NVGs instead of needing a separate module with JHMCS, and very good tracking accuracy. In fact, all USAF and ANG F-16s are replacing the JHMCS with the Scorpion HMD as well.
- Elite 4K
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disconnectedradical wrote:Some news about F-22 upgrades.
https://breakingdefense.com/2025/11/in- ... mics-says/
The F-22 successfully controlled an MQ-20 Avenger as a demonstration for CCA operations in October 2025. So this appears to be a stepping stone for integrating the FQ-42 with the F-22.
https://theaviationist.com/2025/11/18/l ... st-sensor/
Also, the Gen III TacIRST sensor, which is part of the Infrared Defensive System (IRDS) that replaces the current AN/AAR-56 MLD and is similar to the F-35 DAS in some ways, has flown. Lockheed Martin is on contract to install these starting next year.
What’s interesting, is how this will play with the F-22’s new Scorpion HMD that’s being integrated, and first coming to the Hawaii ANG squadron. The Scorpion HMD is a color display monocle, that can display sensor imagery to the eye, and that’s been done for targeting pods when used by the A-10. From what I’ve heard, the TacIRST on the F-22 will be more for missile warning and threat detection and targeting, but not project the imagery itself on the helmet like with DAS.
https://www.twz.com/air/f-22-raptor-fin ... ed-display
Still, the Scorpion HMD is a huge leap, and currently the next best thing other than the F-35 HMD. While it’s a monocular rather than binocular, the Scorpion HMD is a color display, much lighter than the JHMCS, and directly compatible with NVGs instead of needing a separate module with JHMCS, and very good tracking accuracy. In fact, all USAF and ANG F-16s are replacing the JHMCS with the Scorpion HMD as well.
"Compared to traditional IRST which features round windows, TacIRST is based on a smaller staring sensor much more similar to the windows of the F-35’s Distributed Aperture System. Similarly to DAS, TacIRST supports integration with Helmet-Mounted Displays (HMS) to provide pilots with rapid threat indication, as well as targeting functions to support beyond‑visual‑range missile engagements."
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- Elite 2K
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“rapid threat indication, as well as targeting functions”, can simply mean enhanced missile warning, and provide targeting information for the F-22’s sensor fusion, especially with it’s new MOSA computers. And perhaps target indicator on the Scorpion HMD.
However, I don’t think this gives the F-22 ability to project the IR image onto the helmet itself, unlike with the F-35 DAS. I don’t think the Scorpion HMD can support that yet. It’s a smaller and more minimalist display than the F-35 HMD, though lighter and less bulky, which may be better suited for air combat with the F-22 which excels at BFM and sustained turns, so targeting symbology is good enough, rather than full IR imagery.
However, I don’t think this gives the F-22 ability to project the IR image onto the helmet itself, unlike with the F-35 DAS. I don’t think the Scorpion HMD can support that yet. It’s a smaller and more minimalist display than the F-35 HMD, though lighter and less bulky, which may be better suited for air combat with the F-22 which excels at BFM and sustained turns, so targeting symbology is good enough, rather than full IR imagery.
- Elite 5K
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Information about the helmet and F-22 integration:
https://www.thalesdsi.com/2024/09/20/thales-awarded-diu-contract-f22-hmd-interface-dev/
I think for F-22 and what kind of missions it mainly does, projecting the actual DAS/TacIRST imagery to the pilot is not that important. However ability to project information and symbology on it is very beneficial for maintaining as good situational awareness as possible. It basically allows pilot seeing the HUD type information while looking to any direction and not look at the actual HUD.
One example I could think of would be missile avoidance. This helmet most likely can show the pilot exactly where the enemy missile is and where it's going. Basically like the YATO (You Are The One) algorithm in F-35 DAS which shows the pilot (through HMD) if your aircraft is the one being the target for the missile. This should definitely improve the chances of the pilot to avoid the missile. Modern missiles are a lot harder to see with naked eye than old ones like SA-2 or SA-3 as modern missiles are much smaller for the same range/altitude capability or much longer range and don't have nearly as visible smoke plume for example.
I think DAS imagery on the helmet is much more important and useful for F-35 as I bet it's useful for carrier operations (or road base operations) during night or in bad weather. Of course it is likely useful in CAS or some other air-to-ground (or air-to-sea) missions.
https://www.thalesdsi.com/2024/09/20/thales-awarded-diu-contract-f22-hmd-interface-dev/
The Scorpion ® HMD allows pilots to receive situational awareness (SA) information and display it to the pilot while also maintaining visual awareness of their surroundings.
TDSI will work with government and industry partners including DIU, F-22 System Program Office, ACC Federal Lab, the U.S. Air Force’s 309th SWEG (Software Engineering Group) and Lockheed Martin IFG (Integrated Fighter Group), to create an HMD based Pilot/Vehicle Interface (PVI), as it does not currently have HMD capability. The HMD based PVI will allow the F-22 pilot to view symbology and interact with F-22 mission systems through the HMD.
I think for F-22 and what kind of missions it mainly does, projecting the actual DAS/TacIRST imagery to the pilot is not that important. However ability to project information and symbology on it is very beneficial for maintaining as good situational awareness as possible. It basically allows pilot seeing the HUD type information while looking to any direction and not look at the actual HUD.
One example I could think of would be missile avoidance. This helmet most likely can show the pilot exactly where the enemy missile is and where it's going. Basically like the YATO (You Are The One) algorithm in F-35 DAS which shows the pilot (through HMD) if your aircraft is the one being the target for the missile. This should definitely improve the chances of the pilot to avoid the missile. Modern missiles are a lot harder to see with naked eye than old ones like SA-2 or SA-3 as modern missiles are much smaller for the same range/altitude capability or much longer range and don't have nearly as visible smoke plume for example.
I think DAS imagery on the helmet is much more important and useful for F-35 as I bet it's useful for carrier operations (or road base operations) during night or in bad weather. Of course it is likely useful in CAS or some other air-to-ground (or air-to-sea) missions.
- Elite 4K
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disconnectedradical wrote:“rapid threat indication, as well as targeting functions”, can simply mean enhanced missile warning, and provide targeting information for the F-22’s sensor fusion, especially with it’s new MOSA computers. And perhaps target indicator on the Scorpion HMD.
However, I don’t think this gives the F-22 ability to project the IR image onto the helmet itself, unlike with the F-35 DAS. I don’t think the Scorpion HMD can support that yet. It’s a smaller and more minimalist display than the F-35 HMD, though lighter and less bulky, which may be better suited for air combat with the F-22 which excels at BFM and sustained turns, so targeting symbology is good enough, rather than full IR imagery.
It's not just an MLD/MAW, though. It can detect and display the location of enemy fighters, for offensive purposes, too.
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wrightwing wrote:It's not just an MLD/MAW, though. It can detect and display the location of enemy fighters, for offensive purposes, too.
Or defensive purposes as well in case some enemy fighter was somehow missed by other sensors. While this would be very unlikely against 4th gen fighters, the chance is higher with potential enemy 5th gen fighters. In any case having ability to actually visually see where the enemy aircraft are in both azimuth and elevation (and maybe also range) while looking at them makes it much easier for the pilot to understand the tactical situation.