USAF wants to retire 33 Raptors

Anything goes, as long as it is about the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor
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by Corsair1963 » 29 Mar 2022, 04:15

Air Force wants to send Tyndall’s F-22 jets to the boneyard
By Rachel S. Cohen

The Air Force plans to retire nearly three dozen of Tyndall Air Force Base’s F-22 fighter jets in fiscal 2023, ending tentative plans to move them to Virginia that have been on hold for more than three years.

The Raptors have been flying out of nearby Eglin AFB in Florida since a hurricane destroyed Tyndall in October 2018.

Officials want to divest 33 of the service’s oldest F-22s and use that money to instead research cutting-edge combat jet designs under the “Next-Generation Air Dominance” program. If Congress approves the idea, it would send all but three Block 20 Raptors to the “boneyard” at Davis-Monthan AFB in Tucson, Arizona, and shrink the overall fleet from 186 to 153 fighters.


It’s too expensive to upgrade the stealth jets from their usual status as training planes so they can hold up in combat, said Maj. Gen. James Peccia, the Air Force’s deputy assistant budget secretary. That investment would cost $1.8 billion over eight years, which the Air Force believes is money better spent on upgrading newer F-22s with more advanced sensors and improving the F-35A Lightning II.

“We will take operational jets and use them for training, but yet we can also take them and use them in the fight,” Peccia told reporters March 25. “It’s really using every dollar as smart as we can in our fighter portfolio when we’re trying to modernize that portfolio.”

The Air Force’s remaining F-22s would be redistributed across the Raptor squadrons, which include units at Joint Base Langley-Eustis, Virginia; Joint Base Pearl Harbor-Hickam, Hawaii; and Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson, Alaska, and Eglin. Each base would operate fewer jets than before, Air Force spokesperson Ann Stefanek said.

Air Force Secretary Frank Kendall said he doesn’t expect further F-22 retirements in the short-term, adding that the jet remains the service’s premier air-to-air combat platform.

Eglin has hosted flying operations for the 325th Fighter Wing since Hurricane Michael destroyed their previous home at Tyndall Air Force Base in the Florida Panhandle. That includes the Air Force’s only F-22 training unit, the 43rd Fighter Squadron.

After the Category 5 storm, the military pledged to rebuild Tyndall as a “base of the future” and F-35 hub. It took steps toward relocating the F-22 training enterprise to Joint Base Langley-Eustis, but the idea faltered during environmental inspections.

“The transition of the F-22 [formal training unit] mission to JBLE is still being coordinated and we don’t have a specific timeline regarding the move at this point in time,” Air Combat Command spokesperson Alexi Worley said March 23.

Air Force Times reported last June that the service was considering retiring the 325th Fighter Wing’s planes as part of phasing out the F-22, which it doesn’t envision as part of its future inventory after more than 20 years.

“That drives a lot of uncertainty about what’s going to happen,” a former official told Air Force Times. “Are they actually going to move all those people in the FTU up there? Or are they going to retire the airplanes in place and send the people somewhere else?”

The years-long limbo has stressed airmen personally and professionally, complicated their housing and financial situations, and potentially contributed to a string of jet mishaps at the 325th.

Of particular concern are situations where F-22 landing gears fail to deploy or collapse upon landing. An inspection of the Raptors at Eglin, and 10 percent of the fighters at other F-22 bases, found that at least one in five jets in the total F-22 inventory had an incorrectly rigged landing gear, Air Combat Command said last year.

Worley said March 24 that over the past year, “a combination of inspections were performed across the fleet to help determine root cause, assess fleet health, evaluate system performance, and prevent future incidents.”

https://www.defensenews.com/news/pentag ... -boneyard/


Further USAF cuts here............

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2022/03 ... 23-budget/


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by jessmo112 » 29 Mar 2022, 04:55

I smell Boeing behind this.

1. The F-35 buy becomes more efficient by increasing the buy rate.

2. There is nothing that the F-15Ex can do that a F-35 can't. The plane is even cheaper than a Fly away F-15.
You could load them up in beast mode, and have a much more effective missile truck than an F-15.
This buy makes no sense.

3. These F-15s are going to be tasked for a fight against next gen assets Like J-20, S-300 ect ect.
This will be a death sentence to these airmen.

The fact that they are STILL trying to craft F-18E and F-15 down our throat reads of Boeing!!
Fast track the upgraded engine and 6 missiles in the bay upgrade for the F-35. Optimize them for A2A and let's put the F-15 to bed. The USAF is not a Charity case government work program!!!!


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by Corsair1963 » 29 Mar 2022, 05:59

jessmo112 wrote:I smell Boeing behind this.

1. The F-35 buy becomes more efficient by increasing the buy rate.

2. There is nothing that the F-15Ex can do that a F-35 can't. The plane is even cheaper than a Fly away F-15.
You could load them up in beast mode, and have a much more effective missile truck than an F-15.
This buy makes no sense.

3. These F-15s are going to be tasked for a fight against next gen assets Like J-20, S-300 ect ect.
This will be a death sentence to these airmen.

The fact that they are STILL trying to craft F-18E and F-15 down our throat reads of Boeing!!
Fast track the upgraded engine and 6 missiles in the bay upgrade for the F-35. Optimize them for A2A and let's put the F-15 to bed. The USAF is not a Charity case government work program!!!!


While the F-22 cuts have a good shot of happening. I don't see the F-35s being cut at all....(at least I hope not)

Nonetheless, considerable politics here....The (Boeing) F-15EX is built in a Democratic District (St Louis, MO). While the F-35 is built in a Republican District (Fort Worth, TX)

The Democrats know they will lose Congress come November. So, likely pushing hard for all of the work that they can get! Yet, screw what's best for the Country and the Greater Western Alliance!
:bang:


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by madrat » 29 Mar 2022, 13:03

Incorrectly rigged landing gear that was signed off on in the 1990's yet here we are in 2022.

There is no political slant to this. The 33 F-22A are far more of a threat to the adversary than F-15E, and they are paid for now. It makes no sense. And why are we upgrading A-10s and retiring them in the same swoop? It is like Putin and Xi tells us how we'd have to fight them if it ever came to that. Pay more $ and get weaker is the theme. Death by 1,000 cuts indeed.


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by mixelflick » 29 Mar 2022, 16:03

This planned F-22 cut tells me one of the following is behind it...

1.) NGAD platform is progressing faster than expected. Perhaps, but there's still no way of knowing whether that'll continue since it's still in development. Snags could (and usually do) occur later in the developmental process.Not just with the airframe, but engines, avionics, weapons etc..

2.) The F-35 is a much more robust air to air platform than previously advertised

3.) The AIM-260 is on the cusp of being fielded, and will give the SH, F-22 and F-15C/EX fleet game changing capabilities

4.) Some combination of items 1-3

I'm sure it'll save them $, but who goes chopping numbers of your primo air superiority platform, especially at a time when you adversaries (China) are about to go into high rate production of their own stealth fighter/ever more impressive AAM's? Just doesn't make any sense to me, as I'm sure even a block 20 Raptor is more capable than any F-15 (even assuming it has no stealth). For God's sake, I've never seen a fighter that's so dominant get butchered at every turn. It's as if USAF can't get rid of it fast enough.

Are we sure Gates isn't back? :mrgreen:


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by daswp » 29 Mar 2022, 16:11

mixelflick wrote:This planned F-22 cut tells me one of the following is behind it...

1.) NGAD platform is progressing faster than expected. Perhaps, but there's still no way of knowing whether that'll continue since it's still in development. Snags could (and usually do) occur later in the developmental process.Not just with the airframe, but engines, avionics, weapons etc..

2.) The F-35 is a much more robust air to air platform than previously advertised

3.) The AIM-260 is on the cusp of being fielded, and will give the SH, F-22 and F-15C/EX fleet game changing capabilities

4.) Some combination of items 1-3

I'm sure it'll save them $, but who goes chopping numbers of your primo air superiority platform, especially at a time when you adversaries (China) are about to go into high rate production of their own stealth fighter/ever more impressive AAM's? Just doesn't make any sense to me, as I'm sure even a block 20 Raptor is more capable than any F-15 (even assuming it has no stealth). For God's sake, I've never seen a fighter that's so dominant get butchered at every turn. It's as if USAF can't get rid of it fast enough.

Are we sure Gates isn't back? :mrgreen:


Will the EX be cleared to carry hypersonic weapons?
Interesting that it now looks like the EX will replace active duty E's.
Like no one saw that coming....


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by sferrin » 29 Mar 2022, 17:52

mixelflick wrote:This planned F-22 cut tells me one of the following is behind it...

1.) NGAD platform is progressing faster than expected. Perhaps, but there's still no way of knowing whether that'll continue since it's still in development. Snags could (and usually do) occur later in the developmental process.Not just with the airframe, but engines, avionics, weapons etc..

2.) The F-35 is a much more robust air to air platform than previously advertised

3.) The AIM-260 is on the cusp of being fielded, and will give the SH, F-22 and F-15C/EX fleet game changing capabilities

4.) Some combination of items 1-3

I'm sure it'll save them $, but who goes chopping numbers of your primo air superiority platform, especially at a time when you adversaries (China) are about to go into high rate production of their own stealth fighter/ever more impressive AAM's?


The same people who want to retire five cruisers, and nineteen other ships, at a time when they're trying to expand the navy, and China is building us into the dirt.

https://news.usni.org/2022/03/28/fy-23- ... five-years

Meanwhile Brandon tells us he wants to spend $11 BILLION in OTHER countries to "fight climate change". :bang: :bang:
"There I was. . ."


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by Corsair1963 » 29 Mar 2022, 23:43

sferrin wrote:
mixelflick wrote:This planned F-22 cut tells me one of the following is behind it...

1.) NGAD platform is progressing faster than expected. Perhaps, but there's still no way of knowing whether that'll continue since it's still in development. Snags could (and usually do) occur later in the developmental process.Not just with the airframe, but engines, avionics, weapons etc..

2.) The F-35 is a much more robust air to air platform than previously advertised

3.) The AIM-260 is on the cusp of being fielded, and will give the SH, F-22 and F-15C/EX fleet game changing capabilities

4.) Some combination of items 1-3

I'm sure it'll save them $, but who goes chopping numbers of your primo air superiority platform, especially at a time when you adversaries (China) are about to go into high rate production of their own stealth fighter/ever more impressive AAM's?


The same people who want to retire five cruisers, and nineteen other ships, at a time when they're trying to expand the navy, and China is building us into the dirt.

https://news.usni.org/2022/03/28/fy-23- ... five-years

Meanwhile Brandon tells us he wants to spend $11 BILLION in OTHER countries to "fight climate change". :bang: :bang:


I would take all of this we a grain of salt. As the Defense Budget (FY23) is not likely to pass before the mid-terms in November in this year. So, everything will change after that when the Republicans gain control of both the US House and Senate.

This is just the opening shot. Yet, seems many fall for it every time....


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by Corsair1963 » 29 Mar 2022, 23:48

daswp wrote:
mixelflick wrote:This planned F-22 cut tells me one of the following is behind it...

1.) NGAD platform is progressing faster than expected. Perhaps, but there's still no way of knowing whether that'll continue since it's still in development. Snags could (and usually do) occur later in the developmental process.Not just with the airframe, but engines, avionics, weapons etc..

2.) The F-35 is a much more robust air to air platform than previously advertised

3.) The AIM-260 is on the cusp of being fielded, and will give the SH, F-22 and F-15C/EX fleet game changing capabilities

4.) Some combination of items 1-3

I'm sure it'll save them $, but who goes chopping numbers of your primo air superiority platform, especially at a time when you adversaries (China) are about to go into high rate production of their own stealth fighter/ever more impressive AAM's? Just doesn't make any sense to me, as I'm sure even a block 20 Raptor is more capable than any F-15 (even assuming it has no stealth). For God's sake, I've never seen a fighter that's so dominant get butchered at every turn. It's as if USAF can't get rid of it fast enough.

Are we sure Gates isn't back? :mrgreen:


Will the EX be cleared to carry hypersonic weapons?
Interesting that it now looks like the EX will replace active duty E's.
Like no one saw that coming....



Who says the Republicans will even fund the F-15EX past FY23??? Let alone adapt a Hypersonic Missile to it..... :|


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by daswp » 30 Mar 2022, 03:17

]
mixelflick wrote:
Who says the Republicans will even fund the F-15EX past FY23??? Let alone adapt a Hypersonic Missile to it..... :|


Republicans love expensive weapon systems; people programs, not so much.


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by Corsair1963 » 30 Mar 2022, 03:58

daswp wrote:]
mixelflick wrote:
Who says the Republicans will even fund the F-15EX past FY23??? Let alone adapt a Hypersonic Missile to it..... :|


Republicans love expensive weapon systems; people programs, not so much.


We actually love programs that work! We've spent massive sums on big cities like New York, Chicago, LA, San Fransico, etc. etc. all from pressure from the Left.


............and what have we got? Crime, Drugs, Unrest, Corruption, etc. etc. etc. (and not getting any better)


:doh:


Big Cities (Blue) failure....Country and Suburbs largely successful (Red) :wink:


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by milosh » 30 Mar 2022, 11:06

Well no. You spend nyc, la, sf money on nyc,la,sf because those are big budget fillers. Most of red US are budget spenders. If US is really capitalist and liberal most of red states would be bankrupt long ago. Btw outsourcing starred with favourite red president Reagan.


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by madrat » 30 Mar 2022, 12:59

Enough with the red vs blue politics.


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by jetblast16 » 30 Mar 2022, 15:40

Officials want to divest 33 of the service’s oldest F-22s and use that money to instead research cutting-edge combat jet designs under the “Next-Generation Air Dominance” program. If Congress approves the idea, it would send all but three Block 20 Raptors to the “boneyard” at Davis-Monthan AFB in Tucson, Arizona, and shrink the overall fleet from 186 to 153 fighters.


Seems like a waste of capability? That NGAD must be pretty promising. Incidentally, what does this actually mean "incorrectly rigged landing gear"?
Have F110, Block 70, will travel


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by Corsair1963 » 31 Mar 2022, 00:54

madrat wrote:Enough with the red vs blue politics.



It's a big part of the process. If, we like it or not........... :?


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