F-22 Raptor: 20 Years of Air Dominance

Anything goes, as long as it is about the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor
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pigmode

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Unread post18 Nov 2022, 20:01

hornetfinn wrote:
And nobody is claiming otherwise. F-35 is a dedicated multi-role fighter but it is extremely competent and capable also in air-to-air realm. It's not quite as good overall as F-22 at it, but it's easily way better than anything else flying operationally today, including all other dedicated air-to-air fighters (J-20 might be closest but impossible to know how close). I was just pointing out that it's really impressive that F-35 can do so many things so incredibly well. Being 2nd only to F-22 in air-to-air capability, very close to F-15E in ground pounding capability (including payload and range) while having almost identical dimensions and costs to F-16 is just astonishing. So bang for the buck is just incredibly good as found in many evaluations.

I agree that F-22 looks really good and in most angles is even better looking than F-35.



Agree. Still haven't seen an F-35 but have watched F-22 do near vertical takeoffs dozens of times. Sometimes at a distance less than 2mi, at 3' above sea level.

Never had any complaints watching F-15s doing the same for about 10yr, but the F-22 form factor is seriously more impressive.
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disconnectedradical

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Unread post19 Nov 2022, 02:38

It's been over 25 years and still the top air superiority fighter. Look forward to the upgrades that will keep it top dog until NGAD/PCA arrives. Even then, it will be the runner up for quite a while, which is why I think it makes sense that upgraded F-22s can have a very long service life.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post19 Nov 2022, 10:07

disconnectedradical wrote:It's been over 25 years and still the top air superiority fighter. Look forward to the upgrades that will keep it top dog until NGAD/PCA arrives. Even then, it will be the runner up for quite a while, which is why I think it makes sense that upgraded F-22s can have a very long service life.



This has been discussed at length. The NGAD will not arrive before 2040 and maybe later. While the USAF is already talking about retiring the F-22. Of course, things can change but I doubt it will be around much past 2030. As the cost to upgrade it and keep the small fleet flying. Just won\t be worth it vs more advanced versions of the F-35.


IMHO
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charlielima223

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Unread post19 Nov 2022, 12:44

Corsair1963 wrote:
This has been discussed at length. The NGAD will not arrive before 2040 and maybe later. While the USAF is already talking about retiring the F-22. Of course, things can change but I doubt it will be around much past 2030. As the cost to upgrade it and keep the small fleet flying. Just won\t be worth it vs more advanced versions of the F-35.

IMHO


Yes you're right, it is your opinion...

Image

Yet there has been more evidence pointing towards F-22 being around past 2030 and even into 2040. Others members have pointed this out to you in the past so I will not further beat that dead horse. You take one article quote and treating it as absolute gospel is like F-35 haters pointing to the David Axe F-16 vs F-35 dogfight story and holding that as pure fact that the F-35 can't dogfight. You saw 1 sign but you are missing all the clues.

Please go take your F-35 fanboyism over to the F-35 part of this forum and keep it there
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disconnectedradical

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Unread post19 Nov 2022, 16:04

Corsair1963 wrote:
disconnectedradical wrote:It's been over 25 years and still the top air superiority fighter. Look forward to the upgrades that will keep it top dog until NGAD/PCA arrives. Even then, it will be the runner up for quite a while, which is why I think it makes sense that upgraded F-22s can have a very long service life.



This has been discussed at length. The NGAD will not arrive before 2040 and maybe later. While the USAF is already talking about retiring the F-22. Of course, things can change but I doubt it will be around much past 2030. As the cost to upgrade it and keep the small fleet flying. Just won\t be worth it vs more advanced versions of the F-35.


IMHO


:doh:

This has been discussed at length and every time you are quite wrong and deliberately cherrypicking quotes. The exact statement about talks of retiring the F-22 is that it will happen in the 2030s only when NGAD/PCA is operational in numbers. This has been stated multiple times repeatedly.

Nowhere did USAF talk about the F-35 when they talked about the conditions for F-22 retirement. That is purely coming from you. Only you would try to only hear what you want to hear and cherrypick quotes to think that if NGAD/PCA comes after 2040, the F-22 will retire before then, because that goes directly against what USAF says are the conditions for F-22 retirement. Because both F-22 and NGAD are primarily air superiority fighters in their missions, the F-35 isn't. The F-35 is very good at air to air, but it's currently still second to the F-22 in that area, and the F-22 is getting quite a range of upgrades coming this decade too.
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wrightwing

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Unread post19 Nov 2022, 20:49

Corsair1963 wrote:
disconnectedradical wrote:It's been over 25 years and still the top air superiority fighter. Look forward to the upgrades that will keep it top dog until NGAD/PCA arrives. Even then, it will be the runner up for quite a while, which is why I think it makes sense that upgraded F-22s can have a very long service life.



This has been discussed at length. The NGAD will not arrive before 2040 and maybe later. While the USAF is already talking about retiring the F-22. Of course, things can change but I doubt it will be around much past 2030. As the cost to upgrade it and keep the small fleet flying. Just won\t be worth it vs more advanced versions of the F-35.


IMHO

The F-22 won't retire before NGAD. The only F-22s the USAF even considered retiring were the Block 20s, and Congress won't even let them do that. It'll be post 2040 before F-22s are retired, especially with upgrades not being finished till early 2030s. The F-35 is not an F-22 replacement. Let's stop beating this horse.
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