F-16 block 30 vs F-16 block 50

Agreed, it will never be a fair fight but how would the F-16 match up against the ... ?
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F-16ADF

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Unread post17 Jun 2022, 18:03

Yes, I know that. But look at the HAF SL 28,000lbs drag index of 150 chart and compare it to 28,000lbs drag index of 200 for max rate. The difference between the two is about .4dps. I'd imagine 150-38 would equate to a difference of approximately 1dps give or take.




And look at SL 26,000lbs drag index of 50 to drag index of 100, difference again is about .4.



And you seem to be missing my point. The HFF is off in other areas and close in some: say a -400 line, acceleration time, or X turn rate occurring at X speed. Civilian Engineers can only do so much. They do not take the jets out for test flights like manufacturer. Again, I am not attempting to bash the creators of HFF or engineers.




Additionally, I posted a portion of that Block 30 chart for a purpose. Notice it is 24,000lbs. You can take the HAF 22,000lbs chart and the 26,000lbs and get the 24,000lbs line somewhat close. Doesn't take a math wizard. And that shows that the Block 30 has a better Instantaneous turn rate up against its limiter than a Block 50. And you know what, an A model 10 or 15 will have a better instantaneous turn than a Block 30. And that is because for a given load out, the jet is simply lighter. Thrust is not a panacea, there is also weight to factor in.
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gta4

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Unread post17 Jun 2022, 19:13

F-16ADF wrote:Yes, I know that. But look at the HAF SL 28,000lbs drag index of 150 chart and compare it to 28,000lbs drag index of 200 for max rate. The difference between the two is about .4dps. I'd imagine 150-38 would equate to a difference of approximately 1dps give or take.




And look at SL 26,000lbs drag index of 50 to drag index of 100, difference again is about .4.



And you seem to be missing my point. The HFF is off in other areas and close in some: say a -400 line, acceleration time, or X turn rate occurring at X speed. Civilian Engineers can only do so much. They do not take the jets out for test flights like manufacturer. Again, I am not attempting to bash the creators of HFF or engineers.




Additionally, I posted a portion of that Block 30 chart for a purpose. Notice it is 24,000lbs. You can take the HAF 22,000lbs chart and the 26,000lbs and get the 24,000lbs line somewhat close. Doesn't take a math wizard. And that shows that the Block 30 has a better Instantaneous Turn rate up against its limiter than a Block 50. And you know what, an A model 10 or 15 will have a better instantaneous turn than a Block 30. And that is because for a given load out, the jet is simply lighter. Thrust is not a panacea, there is also weight to factor in.


So I assume you admit the F-16C-50 at 28670lbs, DI=38 has a peak STR around 17dps, correct?

Now all I need to do is to prove F-16C-30 at 27395lbs, DI=38 also has a peak STR around 17dps, maybe slightly higher than that of block50.

As long as you tell me the peak STR of F-16C-30 at 24000 lbs, DI=50, I can show the proof step by step.
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Unread post17 Jun 2022, 19:32

As I said, it is not 17.1 (actually the HFF chart looks more like 17.15) nor is it at .82-.84 mach. Still sub 17 in my opinion.
Additionally, if the jet has a SL max turn rate of 20.8 naked with half gas, adding over 2,400lbs of ordinance will probably make max turn rate be around 19.1 as I said. There is no way adding all that weight will just make it drop only 1 degree or 1.3/.4 degrees to 19.4 or 19.5dps.



I am not going to post a USAF Technical Order that has a no export clause in it.






Getting back to the topic. Over the years most F-16 pilots that I have spoken with when asked in their opinion what was the best BMF'r of the group have said it was either the small tail Block 10 or Block 30. I have an airshow coming up in a few weeks, if the pilots are going to be outside next to their jets I will ask again, but usually get the same answer.
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Unread post17 Jun 2022, 20:39

F-16ADF wrote:As I said, it is not 17.1 (actually the HFF chart looks more like 17.15) nor is it at .82-.84 mach. Still sub 17 in my opinion.
Additionally, if the jet has a SL max turn rate of 20.8 naked with half gas, adding over 2,400lbs of ordinance will probably make max turn rate be around 19.1 as I said. There is no way adding all that weight will just make it drop only 1 degree or 1.3/.4 degrees to 19.4 or 19.5dps.



I am not going to post a USAF Technical Order that has a no export clause in it.






Getting back to the topic. Over the years most F-16 pilots that I have spoken with when asked in their opinion what was the best BMF'r of the group have said it was either the small tail Block 10 or Block 30. I have an airshow coming up in a few weeks, if the pilots are going to be outside next to their jets I will ask again, but usually get the same answer.


Sine the line itself has its width that may cause reading error, is it meaningful to discern the difference between 17 and 17.1?

I am not denying block 30 is the best BFM machine. What I am saying is that block 50 performs closely.
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