Corsair1963 wrote:Has Pakistan ever sent F-16's to China for a Military Exercise??? Is that even allowed??? (i.e. US)
F16s don't visit China AFAIK and are put through their paces inside Pakistan under watchful eyes of the US staff. I've heard weird stories of strict policing of the F16s under Pakistani use especially after MLU that started in the 2000s as part of the US military assistance program. This fear of indirect US control (which has been exercised through sanctions) over F16 and consequently cutting teeth of PAF is what partly led to the JF17 program.
invictus wrote:No only JF.17s, Mirages and F.7 series aircraft,the last Shaheen series exercise was organised at Paf base Bholari which is basically an F.16 base with single squadron of ADF vipers so maybe A-A engagements between the vipers and chinese aircraft might have happened but not sure about it.
It wouldn't be entirely wrong to assume that Pakistan chose one of the few bases with F16s because it wanted F16s to be part of those exercises. F16s won't visit China but Chinese planes aren't entirely banned from cohabiting F16s and producing baby JF17s
Shimud wrote:They are operating F-16s since almost 40 years now.
Those who were trained and first flew it at Lake AFB eventually found their way in design and development process of JF-17. It includes pilots and engineers.
They were the second after Israeli AF to put it into real world combat, earned several aerial victories against Soviet and Afghan AFs, without any loss.
This experience and exposure gave them an unmatched capability to influence the weapon, mechanical and electronics' design aspects of JF-17 and in many cases, they improved them.
They are wise to build upon one block after another, in a limited number of 50 aircraft each, while removing the deficiencies of the previous block and improving upon the advantages. Its a continuous refining process. Its a continuously evolving fighter aircraft.
None of us could claim that a JF-17 is better than an F-16 but we must give them credit where its due.
JF-17 has given them an edge over their enemies, in both qualitative and quantitative terms.
An AF which was flying obselete 60s era fighters is gradually replacing all of them with a 4th gen (3rd in Chinese terminology) multipurpose jet.
Not to mention that during February 2019 skirmishes over Kashmir, PAF used its 60s era Mirage 3/5 in a much more effective manner, as compared to how badly the modern Mirage 2000Es of IAF performed.
Your assessment is quite reasonable. PAF had a couple of generation of pilots and Engineers trained on US based planes starting from F86, F104 and latest F16s and ran a JV with Chinese who had more manufacturing prowess to create a fighter that could be build on the cheap and never risk sanctions that Pakistan always risks due to its notoriety in global community. Pakistan did not want to waste that experience with the US tech and human resources which they find as invaluable. Israel used experience with US equipment to gain great know how that serves it to this day and most PAF veterans regard Israel air force as thoroughly professional to the point of being inspiring regardless of the political rhetoric between the two countries.
PAF indeed used 60s era Mirages. A Mirage tail number 303 of PAF fleet was originally built in 1967 per reliable info. They call it 'Baba' or 'old man'.
Since you mentioned Mirages that were used to strike Indian military installations, PAF after 7 months has released footage (link below) of one of the PGM they landed right next to the Indian military targets using vintage Mirages. That is one better than Indian Mirage 2000s which apparently did not 1 land on target, and 2 not catch any footage. PAF from day one claimed they deliberately landed the PGM next to the military installations to show ability and restraint at the same time.
IAF claimed PAF failed to land on target all 6 targets because PAF had to run back after IAF scampered its jets. This contradicts with IAF's own statement that PAF did not cross LoC and operated from within its borders which would make it unlikely for 8 IAF jets to chase off 24 in PAF strike package. IAF also claims PAF used unfair rules of engagement by rendering Su30 useless by firing AMRAAMs at DMax. If the flagship Su30 of IAF was rendered inert by AMRAAMs, it is hard to imagine PAF would abandon all 6 targets or miss them completely. Video feed of the munition till it strikes ground suggests PAF had linkage with the guided munition till it landed, thus giving their claim at least some validation.
https://youtu.be/RYLcCzE4WIM?t=588 - skip to 9:51 in case URL doesn't automatically forward you there.