F-16 versus Saab Gripen

Agreed, it will never be a fair fight but how would the F-16 match up against the ... ?
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block4

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Unread post17 Jul 2021, 12:02

"all the cool stuff from the US and Europe".


Not sure why Sweden would be excluded from such products list offered globally? That is if Finlandia is good enough to acquire super cool F-35 too!

Regardless, if wanting to talk Saab Gripen E cool stuff, one shouldn't forget also to include options for: escort EA jamming pod, the new decoy missiles, next-gen SPEAR, Spice 250, Taurus strike - helping to make 'game-changing' cool again!

: D
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deltasierracharlie

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Unread post02 Aug 2021, 19:13

I see all the time Gripen fanboys always saying and bragging about the Gripen being much easier and quicker to upgrade/update than, well, pretty much any other jet on Earth, including the F-16.

But, has the Gripen ever been updated like this?

https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display ... ight-test/
F-16 receives in-flight software update during recent flight test
F-16 System Program Office, Air Force Life Cycle Management Center / Published July 31, 2021
Image

Lt. Col. Zachary Probst taxis an F-16C Fighting Falcon from the 84th Test and Evaluation Squadron before a test near Eglin Air Force Base, Fla., June 14, 2021. For the first time, an F-16’s Electronic Warfare System received an in-flight software update as part of an Advanced Battle Management System (ABMS) demonstration during a recent test sortie at Nellis Air Force Base, Nev. (U.S. Air Force photo by Tech. Sgt. John Raven)

NELLIS AIR FORCE BASE, Nev. (AFNS) --
For the first time, an F-16 Fighting Falcon’s Electronic Warfare System received an in-flight software update as part of an Advanced Battle Management System (ABMS) demonstration during a recent test sortie at Nellis Air Force Base.

An F-16 updated its Mission Data File with information transmitted from hundreds of miles away using an existing Beyond Line of Sight F-16 satellite communication system. The airborne F-16 Block 50C was able to receive an MDF update from the Hill Software Integration Lab, process it using custom developed Center Display Unit software, and load the new data into the ALQ-213 Countermeasures Signal Processor.

This technology was made possible using the F-16 System Program Office’s organic subject matter experts, the 309th Software Engineering Group, the 53rd Test Wing, and associated agencies. This proof-of-concept test demonstrated the ability for a pilot to properly correlate a previously unknown electronic threat in near real-time.

“The ingenuity and skills of the Flight Test and Program Teams enabled a Viper to land with better capabilities than it took off with,” said Col. Tim Bailey, F-16 System program manager, speaking about the successful test. “This techno-marvel was done with existing systems in much of the Viper fleet, with no hardware mod. required. This is a significant first step!”

“We believe this is the first time a fighter aircraft has received a software update and gained new capability all while in flight,” added Lt. Col. Zachary Probst, a flight test pilot and commander of the 84th Test and Evaluation Squadron. “This is a big deal. There’s a tactical need to be able to rapidly update software, especially mission data files because that’s what ties into our ability to identify, find, and defend ourselves against enemy threat systems.”

What began as a bar-napkin idea — real-time software updates to F-16s — is developing into a program that could one day field across the F-16 fleet. The next step is to integrate high-speed internet into the F-16 thereby allowing F-16 pilots access to data from a classified cloud.

Ultimately the program’s goal is full ABMS integration into the F-16, which will improve long-term relevance of the aircraft and greatly enhance capabilities to the warfighter. In addition, it will connect and integrate DoD, U.S. Air Force, and U.S. Space Force capabilities.

“We are focused on capability development and proving things,” Probst said. “We are working on building the ‘highway’. Once we build the ‘highway', the possibility of places to go are endless.”


It's a genuine question. I would really like to know. If anyone knows something about this and/or has "seen" the Gripen being updated in real time like this, then please comment and provide some sources : )
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Unread post16 Aug 2021, 19:52

Just a reference post for when @shadowhawk makes a clone account and tries to hijack another thread, just putting links and sources regarding "Gripen C upgrade to E" saga. This isn't meant to start a new conversation but rather serves as a reference post.

2010, at Farnborough, the wording from Saab was still "upgrade":

FARNBOROUGH: Saab plots bright future for Gripen programme
http://web.archive.org/web/202102241821 ... 73.article

To be designated the Gripen E/F in national service, the NG will be ready in 2015. The main question for Stockholm and Saab's other potential customers is how many will be acquired, and when.

Sweden has already decided that its E/F-model fighters - which will be upgraded from its current C/D-standard Gripens - should enter service in 2017-18. But if Saab wins one or more of its forthcoming sales opportunities, deliveries to the Swedish air force could be accelerated.


2013, after an actual contract for Es for SwAF was awarded to Saab, it turned out that upgrade would be a "remanufacture", and by "remanufacture" they mean that no significant part of the C airframe would have ever been used.

Saab reveals full Gripen E design, cost savings
https://www.flightglobal.com/saab-revea ... 46.article

Sweden’s remanufactured aircraft will retain almost none of the previous airframe, but will reuse parts of its fuel and air systems, plus its ejection seat, windshield, canopy and outer wing elevons.


December 2017, it is revealed that Es will contain 100% brand new parts:

Gripen E contract amended to new-build rather than remanufactured
http://web.archive.org/web/201807310714 ... nufactured

The Saab Gripen E combat aircraft will no longer use parts salvaged from retired Gripen Cs, with each aircraft now to be built completely from new.

The manufacturer announced on 18 December that the Swedish Defence Materiel Administration (FMV) had awarded it a SEK400 million (USD47 million) modification to the SEK57.9 billion development contracts awarded in early 2013. This modification covers the production of new parts that were originally slated to be cross-decked from retired Gripen C aircraft.

“The original contract, which was signed with FMV during 2013, regarding development and modification of Gripen E is based on the terms that certain equipment from the existing aircraft fleet/stock within the Swedish Armed Forces should be reused. This new contract means that the equipment that should be reused instead will be acquired new,” Saab said in a statement, adding; “This […] is intended to secure availability so that the Swedish Armed Forces can keep the Gripen C/D fleet in operational service while Gripen E is being delivered and put into operational service in the Swedish Air Force.”

Under the terms of the original production contract awarded in December 2013, Saab was to convert 60 of the Swedish Air Force’s (SwAF’s) Gripen C platforms into the latest-variant Gripen E (the service’s 25 Gripen Ds would remain as lead-in fighter trainers until the full fleet of Gripen Es had been delivered by the end of 2026).

However, as far back as March 2014 Saab officials were briefing Jane’s and other defence aviation media that the Gripen C and Gripen E share little in terms of common structures and systems. According to the officials, the only items able to be cross-decked are the windscreen and canopy, the outer elevons, the ejection-seat, the internal gun and conveyor system, and some other ancillary equipment. As such, it was always the case that the original 2013 contracts would need to be amended to reflect this


Why wouldn't they use the parts from unused airframes that there are still plenty of in "strategic reserve" is a mystery. Perhaps because it was indeed never viable indeed, as Jane's speculates.
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XanderCrews

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Unread post17 Aug 2021, 20:23

deltasierracharlie wrote:It's a genuine question. I would really like to know. If anyone knows something about this and/or has "seen" the Gripen being updated in real time like this, then please comment and provide some sources : )


not that I have heard. Gripen has been "scooped" pretty hard as they say in the news business. Gripen E is still in test, so I doubt you'll see any in-flight upgrades for a while. rest assured when it happens, it will be announced with the importance of having split the atom.
hythelday wrote:Just a reference post for when @shadowhawk makes a clone account and tries to hijack another thread, just putting links and sources regarding "Gripen C upgrade to E" saga. This isn't meant to start a new conversation but rather serves as a reference post.

2010, at Farnborough, the wording from Saab was still "upgrade":

FARNBOROUGH: Saab plots bright future for Gripen programme
http://web.archive.org/web/202102241821 ... 73.article

To be designated the Gripen E/F in national service, the NG will be ready in 2015. The main question for Stockholm and Saab's other potential customers is how many will be acquired, and when.

Sweden has already decided that its E/F-model fighters - which will be upgraded from its current C/D-standard Gripens - should enter service in 2017-18. But if Saab wins one or more of its forthcoming sales opportunities, deliveries to the Swedish air force could be accelerated.


2013, after an actual contract for Es for SwAF was awarded to Saab, it turned out that upgrade would be a "remanufacture", and by "remanufacture" they mean that no significant part of the C airframe would have ever been used.

Saab reveals full Gripen E design, cost savings
https://www.flightglobal.com/saab-revea ... 46.article

Sweden’s remanufactured aircraft will retain almost none of the previous airframe, but will reuse parts of its fuel and air systems, plus its ejection seat, windshield, canopy and outer wing elevons.


December 2017, it is revealed that Es will contain 100% brand new parts:

Gripen E contract amended to new-build rather than remanufactured
http://web.archive.org/web/201807310714 ... nufactured

The Saab Gripen E combat aircraft will no longer use parts salvaged from retired Gripen Cs, with each aircraft now to be built completely from new.

The manufacturer announced on 18 December that the Swedish Defence Materiel Administration (FMV) had awarded it a SEK400 million (USD47 million) modification to the SEK57.9 billion development contracts awarded in early 2013. This modification covers the production of new parts that were originally slated to be cross-decked from retired Gripen C aircraft.

“The original contract, which was signed with FMV during 2013, regarding development and modification of Gripen E is based on the terms that certain equipment from the existing aircraft fleet/stock within the Swedish Armed Forces should be reused. This new contract means that the equipment that should be reused instead will be acquired new,” Saab said in a statement, adding; “This […] is intended to secure availability so that the Swedish Armed Forces can keep the Gripen C/D fleet in operational service while Gripen E is being delivered and put into operational service in the Swedish Air Force.”

Under the terms of the original production contract awarded in December 2013, Saab was to convert 60 of the Swedish Air Force’s (SwAF’s) Gripen C platforms into the latest-variant Gripen E (the service’s 25 Gripen Ds would remain as lead-in fighter trainers until the full fleet of Gripen Es had been delivered by the end of 2026).

However, as far back as March 2014 Saab officials were briefing Jane’s and other defence aviation media that the Gripen C and Gripen E share little in terms of common structures and systems. According to the officials, the only items able to be cross-decked are the windscreen and canopy, the outer elevons, the ejection-seat, the internal gun and conveyor system, and some other ancillary equipment. As such, it was always the case that the original 2013 contracts would need to be amended to reflect this


Why wouldn't they use the parts from unused airframes that there are still plenty of in "strategic reserve" is a mystery. Perhaps because it was indeed never viable indeed, as Jane's speculates.


I was told back in the old days the "Recycled Gripens" was nothing more than trying to make it more politically palatable to the peace politicians in Sweden. as you show I watched that "evolve" over the years.
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garrya

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Unread post13 May 2022, 18:07

linkomart wrote:Well....
As an engineer that was involved in the Gripen development (not those early years but still) I say it's......

I have a question, the Eurofighter use a bandpass radome to reduce it's radar cross section significantly. Was FSS radome ever be a part of Gripen LO design?.
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