58th Fighter Squadron F-35A crashes during night landing

[Gums]

Salute!

GASP. I am losing track of dates.... a lesson to all here: getting old happens quicker than you think

I only question why this picture referenced the later crash?

Gums sends...

[spazsinbad]

'Gums' Did you want to see a photo of the aircraft after the crash? A photo before the crash makes sense to me though.

[spazsinbad]

Perhaps a reason why the 'crash pilot' had been flying 200 KIAS landing in the simulator may be this issue from wayback:

"03 May 2007 - Due to control problems with right wing flaperons, the JSF has to make that landing at an exceptional high speed of 220 knots (350 km/hr). The plane’s undercarriage, brakes and tires are damaged...."
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=10847&p=130830&hilit=internal+problem%2A+SAR%2A#p130830
ORIGINAL: https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/f- ... ems-04311/

[outlaw162]

I wonder why Raptor CLAW in his rebuttal post wouldn't/couldn't address the specific need 'way back' then for 'Slim' to do a 220 knot landing at that time. Everything else was addressed. He referenced AIB/SIB proceedings as precluding an explanation of the 220.

Is he still out there? Can he address the real or perceived reason for 220 now? Controllability check results?

Is there still now an abnormal that requires a 200 knot landing? Flaperon response? Sounds very 'no-flapish' with barely adequate 'rons'. Although the bottom line here is the guy at Eglin didn't really intend to be at 200 anyway.

(In the case of severely damaged hydraulics, the good 'ole F-105 initially had a backup 'pilot' recovery system for roll control using the flaps only which was entirely electric. A form of non-software flaperon. You could maintain reasonable control to a safe bailout area. Operated with a little toggle switch on the right console. You could also correct an asymmetric flap condition with it. Done that.

It eventually was morphed to an 'aircraft' recovery system which used only flaps for roll and (gasp) pitch control electrically and theoretically could get the aircraft on the ground. Required a fairly high approach speed with only two surfaces doing everything. When I went thru the local F-105 check-out school at FWH, aptly named 'Ding Dong School', as the instructor came to this portion of the course he recommended I never use it. )

[spazsinbad]

This old accident comparison graphic at 750,000 flight hours is here for historical archive purposes a comparison to F-35.

The Air Force/General Dynamics F-111 Fighter-Bomber Today Nov 1978
http://aviationarchives.blogspot.com/20 ... today.html

https://www.docdroid.com/Lg0BVXf/genera ... -today-pdf (0.6Mb)

[charlielima223]

Even in "death" the F-35 still manages to help out the the rest of the fleet and save the tax payers a couple bucks here and there.

https://theaviationist.com/2021/09/08/f ... intainers/

“Obviously, accidents are unfortunate, but when it comes to aircraft involved in a mishap, I have always found that there is a silver lining and something to be gained,” Santos said. “In terms of the wreckage being recycled and used for other purposes, these kinds of innovative efforts save the DoD and taxpayers millions of dollars.”

Especially on pretty “young” fleets, maintenance training is usually carried out on frontline aircraft. However, this is not always doable, as most of times, jets requiring maintenance are to be immediately returned to flying status and can’t support training activities of ground personnel.

“Until now, maintenance training has been accomplished using operational aircraft,” said Tech. Sgt. Dennis Corcoran, 372nd TRS. “Obviously, this is a significant challenge because often units are unable to support training evolutions, simply due to operational commitments or the real-world need for jets requiring maintenance to be immediately returned to flying status, in order to maintain the squadron’s readiness requirements.”

Therefore, the aircraft was relocated to Hill in July and activities conducted in coordination with a U.S. Navy unit also interested in some of the aircraft’s components for test and evaluation. The project is expected to be completed during the next year.

I remember way back when at a time a can barely remember and at a place I can faintly recall. When I was doing my MOS training we used a stripped Blackhawk fuselage as a training aid. Supposedly this Blackhawk was in a crash and instead of scrapping it, why not use it to help some green brand new booger picking cherry boots.

[spazsinbad]

Air Force repurposes condemned F-35 aircraft for training aids
07 Sep 2021 Todd Cromar 75th Air Base Wing Public Affairs

"HILL AIR FORCE BASE, Utah -- Airmen here are currently involved in transforming a condemned F-35A Lightning II into sectional training aids for use during instruction of F-35 maintainers. The aircraft was involved in a landing mishap at Eglin Air Force Base, Florida, in 2020. The pilot safety ejected, but the aircraft burned after impact and was considered unrepairable.

After the accident, Airmen in the 372nd Training Squadron, Det. 3, at Hill AFB sought the aircraft as a chance to bolster maintenance training opportunities for military and civilian F-35 maintainers assigned to the base’s 388th Fighter Wing, 419th Fighter Wing, and Ogden Air Logistics Complex. “Initially, the jet was to be scrapped and destroyed,” said Master Sgt. Andrew Wilkow, 372nd TRS. ”However, we explored the possibility that some parts such as avionics, fuel cell and gun system might still be in relative pristine condition inside the damaged crust and usable for training.”

Since the 372nd TRS previously worked with the F-35 Joint Program Office on another F-35 mishap aircraft project last spring to successfully re-install the wings of an F-35 and turn it into an aircraft battle damage trainer, this time the JPO called to return the favor and offer assistance to the 372nd. Working with Dan Santos, F-35 JPO heavy maintenance manager, a small team of aircraft specialists traveled to Eglin AFB to accomplish a site survey of the condemned aircraft, where it was determined that major components needed for the training aids were still intact and usable.

“Obviously, accidents are unfortunate, but when it comes to aircraft involved in a mishap, I have always found that there is a silver lining and something to be gained,” Santos said. “In terms of the wreckage being recycled and used for other purposes, these kinds of innovative efforts save the DoD and taxpayers millions of dollars.” In coordination with a U.S. Navy unit also interested in some of the aircraft’s components for test and evaluation, an arrangement was made between the sister service units to relocate the aircraft to Hill, saving time and money for both parties.

“Until now, maintenance training has been accomplished using operational aircraft,” said Tech. Sgt. Dennis Corcoran, 372nd TRS. “Obviously, this is a significant challenge because often units are unable to support training evolutions, simply due to operational commitments or the real-world need for jets requiring maintenance to be immediately returned to flying status, in order to maintain the squadron’s readiness requirements.” He said these new training aids will alleviate a good portion of those issues.

Tech. Sgt. Kevin Browning, 388th Maintenance Squadron NCOIC of corrosion control, said the salvaged aircraft was delivered in July and his team immediately started work cleaning and making the entire airframe non-hazardous for the safety of those who will use the components.

“Our shop is involved with removing contaminants, cleaning up any fluid or chemical residue, trimming off exposed burnt composites, and removing sharp edges or metal damage,” he said. “Then we prep and paint the components, so that they are safe to handle.”

The next phase of the project will include cutting the entire fuselage lengthwise and then into individual component sections. The sections will then be framed and mounted on stands to give maintainers as much access as possible to the training aids.

“The whole process has been a team effort from the beginning and only possible through the time, effort and cooperation put forth by many individual professionals throughout the Air Force, as well as many highly skilled Airmen, from multiple units across Hill Air Force Base,” Corcoran said. The project is expected to be completed during the next year."

Photo: https://www.dvidshub.net/image/6821765/ ... ining-aids [more photos here] "Airman 1st Class Andrew Simpson and Airman 1st Class Fabio Velazquez Gonzalez, both with the 388th Maintenance Squadron corrosion control shop, work on decontamination and surface sanding a condemned F-35A Lightning II July 20, 2021, at Hill Air Force Base, Utah. The aircraft was involved in a landing mishap in 2020 at Eglin AFB, Florida, but is now being transformed into sectional training aids by Airmen at Hill AFB for use during instruction of F-35 maintainers.
(U.S. Air Force photo by Todd Cromar)" https://www.dvidshub.net/download/image/6821765 (JPG 16.5Mb)

Source: https://www.dvidshub.net/news/404653/ai ... ining-aids

[charlielima223]

thanks for nearly repeating my post

[spazsinbad]

Yeah interesting that the AVIATIONISTA website more or less copied the I guess original DVIDS article. I should have mentioned that - forgot whilst messing about with the photos. Anyhoo with DVIDS we are entitled to post the entire article whereas with 'commercial' websites I / we are restricted to perhaps half. Nice pictures at DVIDS for sure.

[Corsair1963]

Let's also not forget about lives "saved" in regards to the F-35 over previous generation fighters!

[spazsinbad]

At the risk of repeating above posts here is another view of the 'F-35A CRUST' now SILVER LINING story.

What Does the Air Force Do with a Trashed F-35? Turn It into a Training Tool
14 Sep 2021 Stephen Losey

"...Rather than toss the burnt remains on the scrap pile, the service decided on a second life for the F-35 parts as practice for military aircraft maintainers.... The F-35 caught fire and was completely destroyed....

...Part of the most costly weapons program in Pentagon history, the jet originally was slated to be scrapped and destroyed. But airmen at the 372nd Training Squadron at Hill Air Force Base in Utah saw an opportunity. They wondered whether inside the "damaged crust," as the squadron's Master Sgt. Andrew Wilkow put it in a Sept. 7 press release, some parts such as the avionics, fuel cell and gun systems still might be relatively intact and salvageable for training....

...with a trashed F-35, maintainers can take as long as they want to poke around inside and hone their skills without an operational squadron growing impatient to get its jet back. A team from Hill Air Force Base went to Eglin to take a look, confirming that the major components they would need for training were still in usable shape.

They struck a deal to share with a Navy unit, which was also interested in using the components for its own test and evaluation purposes, and got ready to move the fighter's remains back to Hill. The wings were cut off to prepare it for transport on a flatbed trailer.

But a burned-up F-35 includes a lot of hazardous contaminants, so the 388th Maintenance Squadron at Hill began cleaning it so it can be safely used. That involved sanding its surface and removing carbon fiber that became exposed in the wreck.

"Our shop is involved with removing contaminants, cleaning up any fluid or chemical residue, trimming off exposed burnt composites and removing sharp edges or metal damage," Tech. Sgt. Kevin Browning, the noncommissioned officer in charge of corrosion control at the 388th, said in the release. "Then we prep and paint the components, so that they are safe to handle."

Next, the F-35 will be cut into pieces, first lengthwise across the fuselage, and then into individual component sections that will be mounted on stands to give maintainers better access. The Air Force expects that will be finished next year.

"Obviously, accidents are unfortunate, but when it comes to aircraft involved in a mishap, I have always found that there is a silver lining and something to be gained," Dan Santos, the heavy maintenance manager for the F-35 Joint Program Office, said in the release."

Photo: "(Left to right) Staff Sgt. Cameron Salmon and Staff Sgt. Steven Kuethe, Ogden Air Logistics Complex aircraft battle damage and repair, and Master Sgt. Andrew Wilkow, 372nd Training Squadron, Det. 3, cut off the wing of a condemned F-35A Lightning II and prep it for transport at Eglin Air Force Base, Florida. (Courtesy photo)" https://images03.military.com/sites/def ... eckage.jpg

Source: https://www.military.com/daily-news/202 ... -tool.html

[spazsinbad]

Silver lining for crashed USAF F-35A: recycled as training aid [2 page PDF attached]
Jan 2022 AirForces Monthly

"...The next phase of the project will include cutting the entire fuselage lengthwise and then into individual component sections. These will then be framed and mounted on stands to give maintainers as much access as possible to the training aids.

Corcoran said: “The whole process has been a team effort from the beginning and only possible through the time, effort and co-operation put forth by many individual professionals throughout the air force, as well as many highly skilled airmen, from multiple units across Hill Air Force Base.” The project is expected to be complete soon."

Source: AirForces Monthly Magazine January 2022 #406

[Gums]

Salute!

Not ready to research all the files, but the F-16 that one dude left upon aborting a deadstick attempt seemed to be in good enuf shape to use for training purposes ... might have even been 013.

Checking later.

Gums sends..