27 Nov 2016, 21:55
Salute!
Thread is bout accel, and I have flown two jets with awesome accel. Nevertheless, the total capabilities of the weapon system and the envisioned threat needs to be considered.
The Viper accelerated about like the VooDoo I flew back in the mid-sixties. Imagine unloading at 20K and 0.9M in a 20 - 30 deg climb, then passing the mach still climbing and getting to 1.33M about when reaching level and then back up to 50,000 freeking feet in another minute and a half or so. That was our climb schedule back in 1966. In the Viper I would have my solo stud ( clean A model) start at 400 KIAS and then light burner and do a 90 deg turn pulling 3 gees and roll out. So at 5,000 feet he would wind up at about 700 knots and 1.1M or so.
Accel is great in and of itself, and the Stubbie without external stores is gonna be as good as the Raptor. Remember that the Viper is drag limited a lot more than weight limited. It was very obvious to us in those early days when we flew with those huge wing tanks, and the centerline not so much.
Slightly off topic but I gotta go with Steve. Sorry Count. So from Steve:
To be honest, adding the A-7D to the mix is one good thing to consider. As a SLUF/Viper dude I feel well-qualified to speak from the peanut gallery. Thing to remember is it was veeeery slugish and had a huge RCS. Nevertheless, it remained the permier bomb truck until the early 80's.
The F-35 is more like the SLUF WRT avionics/nav/sensors. Especially the nav. Biggest difference is the neat radar - AESA, isn't it? Our SLUF dar was really good for A2G and terrain following/avoidance and such. The Viper DAR was good A2G without TF or TA modes, but that was all. A2A radar in the Viper was like an Eagle or Hornet ( only had a few dozen hours in those sims, but the avionics were accurate if not the aero, ditto for the F-20 sim).
@Count
Talk to any Viper pilot that flew the SLUF first. Ditto for Double Ugly folks that came to we lowly mudbeaters in the SLUF.
Our SA was way beyond anything else we had flying in the tactical environment except the 'vaark. We had super radar for ground map, TF and TA and beacon-bombing. We had a great INS with a doppler system, so we could takeoff with a 2 nin alignment and then do an airborne INS alignment using that doppler. Or we could go pure doppler or pure INS or another two mixed modes. Neat huh? And then the biggest bonus - the projected map display.
see the attached PMDS article from the Fighter Weapons Review. It was the template for my address to the DMA folks at the St Louis facility that produced our maps on 35 mm film for our gizmo. No kidding. I got to meet the gnomes that did all the good work.
The two biggest fears of a fighter/attack pilot is running outta gas and knowing where you are. In the SLUF we had all bases covered, but getting away from the enema in A2A was a problem, heh heh.
++++++++
I like the overall F-35 implementation now. It is not a bomb truck like the SLUF or Bone or Buff. But the sucker will likely get in and hit and get out. It will also help other friendly folks. I would like to try it myself.
Hope all had a great Thanksgiving here in the states and across the world, holiday or not.
Gums opines...
Thread is bout accel, and I have flown two jets with awesome accel. Nevertheless, the total capabilities of the weapon system and the envisioned threat needs to be considered.
The Viper accelerated about like the VooDoo I flew back in the mid-sixties. Imagine unloading at 20K and 0.9M in a 20 - 30 deg climb, then passing the mach still climbing and getting to 1.33M about when reaching level and then back up to 50,000 freeking feet in another minute and a half or so. That was our climb schedule back in 1966. In the Viper I would have my solo stud ( clean A model) start at 400 KIAS and then light burner and do a 90 deg turn pulling 3 gees and roll out. So at 5,000 feet he would wind up at about 700 knots and 1.1M or so.
Accel is great in and of itself, and the Stubbie without external stores is gonna be as good as the Raptor. Remember that the Viper is drag limited a lot more than weight limited. It was very obvious to us in those early days when we flew with those huge wing tanks, and the centerline not so much.
Slightly off topic but I gotta go with Steve. Sorry Count. So from Steve:
Take an F-16, stir in a little A-7, bake, then sprinkle on a generous helping of F-117. What do you get? An F-35.
To be honest, adding the A-7D to the mix is one good thing to consider. As a SLUF/Viper dude I feel well-qualified to speak from the peanut gallery. Thing to remember is it was veeeery slugish and had a huge RCS. Nevertheless, it remained the permier bomb truck until the early 80's.
The F-35 is more like the SLUF WRT avionics/nav/sensors. Especially the nav. Biggest difference is the neat radar - AESA, isn't it? Our SLUF dar was really good for A2G and terrain following/avoidance and such. The Viper DAR was good A2G without TF or TA modes, but that was all. A2A radar in the Viper was like an Eagle or Hornet ( only had a few dozen hours in those sims, but the avionics were accurate if not the aero, ditto for the F-20 sim).
@Count
Talk to any Viper pilot that flew the SLUF first. Ditto for Double Ugly folks that came to we lowly mudbeaters in the SLUF.
Our SA was way beyond anything else we had flying in the tactical environment except the 'vaark. We had super radar for ground map, TF and TA and beacon-bombing. We had a great INS with a doppler system, so we could takeoff with a 2 nin alignment and then do an airborne INS alignment using that doppler. Or we could go pure doppler or pure INS or another two mixed modes. Neat huh? And then the biggest bonus - the projected map display.
see the attached PMDS article from the Fighter Weapons Review. It was the template for my address to the DMA folks at the St Louis facility that produced our maps on 35 mm film for our gizmo. No kidding. I got to meet the gnomes that did all the good work.
The two biggest fears of a fighter/attack pilot is running outta gas and knowing where you are. In the SLUF we had all bases covered, but getting away from the enema in A2A was a problem, heh heh.
++++++++
I like the overall F-35 implementation now. It is not a bomb truck like the SLUF or Bone or Buff. But the sucker will likely get in and hit and get out. It will also help other friendly folks. I would like to try it myself.
Hope all had a great Thanksgiving here in the states and across the world, holiday or not.
Gums opines...
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fwr_winter_1973.pdf- (8.44 MiB) Downloaded 3758 times
Gums
Viper pilot '79
"God in your guts, good men at your back, wings that stay on - and Tally Ho!"
Viper pilot '79
"God in your guts, good men at your back, wings that stay on - and Tally Ho!"
(I'm a digging Man.)
