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Re: F-35 and Airshows

Unread postPosted: 03 Dec 2020, 17:42
by sprstdlyscottsmn
Beo may say the min rad turn is 15 seconds, but every video I see that is more like the 270 time, not the 360 time.

Her demo of the Drift also seems to have much less heading change than when Dojo does it. Maybe the difference is that Dojo leaves the nose where it is after 3 sec and lets the flight vector catch up before pitching into the climb while Beo lowers the nose after 3 sec to reduce the AoA for the climb.

Re: F-35 and Airshows

Unread postPosted: 04 Dec 2020, 00:33
by energo
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:Beo may say the min rad turn is 15 seconds, but every video I see that is more like the 270 time, not the 360 time.


Concur. Definitely not 15 seconds. More like 25.

Re: F-35 and Airshows

Unread postPosted: 04 Dec 2020, 03:03
by gta4
energo wrote:
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:Beo may say the min rad turn is 15 seconds, but every video I see that is more like the 270 time, not the 360 time.


Concur. Definitely not 15 seconds. More like 25.


There are 360 turns in 17-20s by F-35A:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIKQo-9 ... =yvesdulac
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0fw13P ... =yvesdulac

Re: Re:F-35と航空ショー

Unread postPosted: 04 Dec 2020, 03:51
by wrightwing
gta4 wrote:
doge wrote:Captain Kristin "BEO" Wolfe says the Minimum Radius Turn is completed in 15 seconds. (!?!?) :shock: wow! really !? :doh:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59rS-iI-aYY

F-35 Demonstration Maneuvers Explained: Min Radius Turn to Lightning Loop
08/03/2020
hey everyone, captain kristen beowulf the f-35 demo pilot.
today we're going to be talking about the min radius turn to lightning loop.
the minimum radius turn is exactly what it sounds.
it's intended to show how quickly the jet can turn.
and to show how small of a turn radius is required to complete the 360 degree level turn.

Entering just over 400 knots the jet finishes the turn in about 15 seconds.

and then i immediately pull the nose to pure vertical for the lightning loop maneuver, at just over 3000 feet above ground.
i pull full aft on the stick to command maximum nose rotation over the top and show how quickly the jet can point its nose using the high aoa capability.


The F-35 is limiting thrust output to avoid accelerating at 380knots when pulling 7.5G turn:
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=57359
This means what we saw at the airshow is below the actual limit of the aircraft.

If you do the math that is near 21.5deg/sec turn rate, which is equivalent to 16s 360 turn.

If we stick with 400kts and 15 seconds like she said, that would be a 24°/sec turn rate.

Re: F-35 and Airshows

Unread postPosted: 04 Dec 2020, 05:51
by f-15c85-0114
gta4 wrote:
energo wrote:
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:Beo may say the min rad turn is 15 seconds, but every video I see that is more like the 270 time, not the 360 time.


Concur. Definitely not 15 seconds. More like 25.


There are 360 turns in 17-20s ny F-35A:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIKQo-9 ... =yvesdulac
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0fw13P ... =yvesdulac

What is the source of this video

Re: F-35 and Airshows

Unread postPosted: 04 Dec 2020, 19:12
by gta4
f-15c85-0114 wrote:
gta4 wrote:
energo wrote:
Concur. Definitely not 15 seconds. More like 25.


There are 360 turns in 17-20s ny F-35A:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIKQo-9 ... =yvesdulac
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0fw13P ... =yvesdulac

What is the source of this video


Not sure about the first video.

The second video is clearly from Pairs 2017

Re: F-35 and Airshows

Unread postPosted: 09 Dec 2020, 08:45
by spazsinbad
F-35A Lightning II Demonstration Team Schedule announced for 2021 Airshow Season
08 Dec 2020 Capt. Kip Sumner, F-35 Demonstration Team Public Affairs

"HILL AIR FORCE BASE, Utah --
The 2021 air show schedule for the Air Force’s F-35A Lightning II Demonstration Team has been officially released.

Announced today during the Virtual International Council of Airshows annual conference, the Utah-based team is scheduled to display the capabilities of the F-35A at approximately 22 performances starting in April 2021 and running through December.

This will be the team's third year as an official aerial demonstration team, and it's second year operating as part of the 388th Fighter Wing out of Hill AFB, Utah, under Air Combat Command.

Capt. Kristin "BEO" Wolfe will continue to lead the team as it's demonstration pilot and commander, with the team continuing to practice locally over Hill Air Force Base during the air show "off-season", from January to March 2021.

The approximately 18-minute long profile will highlight the F-35A’s numerous capabilities to include speed, agility, and high-g turning, while the team will provide opportunities for people around the world to see the skill and professionalism of America’s Airmen...."

Graphic: https://www.acc.af.mil/Portals/103/F-35 ... hedule.png

Source: https://www.acc.af.mil/News/Article-Dis ... ow-season/

Re: F-35 and Airshows

Unread postPosted: 11 Dec 2020, 01:59
by energo
gta4 wrote:
energo wrote:
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:Beo may say the min rad turn is 15 seconds, but every video I see that is more like the 270 time, not the 360 time.


Concur. Definitely not 15 seconds. More like 25.


There are 360 turns in 17-20s by F-35A:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIKQo-9 ... =yvesdulac
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0fw13P ... =yvesdulac


Very unclear from these videos. Seems about 20 seconds at the Paris Air Show 2017 and the F-35C demo at NAF El Centro back in february. Otherwise it's generally 23-25 seconds in the demos I've come across.

https://youtu.be/93NdwZAeXhI?t=273
https://youtu.be/Ui-7r8NaVUQ?t=228

1500ft minimum radius turn:
https://youtu.be/1MGCakASTNY?t=184

F-16CJ with GE-129: optimum 1320ft
download/file.php?id=26968&mode=view

Re: F-35 and Airshows

Unread postPosted: 11 Dec 2020, 02:48
by gta4
energo wrote:
1500ft minimum radius turn:
https://youtu.be/1MGCakASTNY?t=184

F-16CJ with GE-129: optimum 1320ft
download/file.php?id=26968&mode=view


It is not the most "common" ones that count, but the fastest one that counts.

Re: F-35 and Airshows

Unread postPosted: 11 Dec 2020, 02:52
by energo
gta4 wrote:
energo wrote:
1500ft minimum radius turn:
https://youtu.be/1MGCakASTNY?t=184

F-16CJ with GE-129: optimum 1320ft
download/file.php?id=26968&mode=view


It is not the most "common" ones that count, but the fastest one that counts.


Granted. Do you have a faster one?

f-16CJ at lower gross weight (20000 lbs, compared to 26000 lbs above) and GE-100: 877ft
download/file.php?id=6707&mode=view

Re: F-35 and Airshows

Unread postPosted: 11 Dec 2020, 02:52
by gta4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0fw13P ... =yvesdulac

This one is pretty clear. Go to hospital to check you eyes if necessary.

Re: F-35 and Airshows

Unread postPosted: 11 Dec 2020, 10:18
by energo
gta4 wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0fw13Pc7G0&ab_channel=yvesdulac

This one is pretty clear. Go to hospital to check you eyes if necessary.


Difficult to asses if it's a full circle, as the video seems to stop short of the full turn. Perhaps you have the source?

Re: F-35 and Airshows

Unread postPosted: 12 Dec 2020, 02:59
by mpkopack
Are you really trying to compare the turning capability of different aircraft based on what they do in airshows? Seriously? You know they're literally just "shows" right?

Re: F-35 and Airshows

Unread postPosted: 13 Dec 2020, 00:45
by energo
mpkopack wrote:Are you really trying to compare the turning capability of different aircraft based on what they do in airshows? Seriously? You know they're literally just "shows" right?


A minimum radius turn is the same whether it's an air show or combat, isn't it? Isn't an air show display meant to show an aicraft's basic capabilities?

Re: F-35 and Airshows

Unread postPosted: 13 Dec 2020, 00:47
by energo
Double post.