Most agile F-35?

[zero-one]

A little excerpt on the F-35C (a.k.a. Obese Amelia)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNJY1l3XUPc&t=2687s

Mover: What is your scariest Obese Amelia moment

GB: It is impossible to pee on that thing...

Mover: did you like flying it?

GB: Loved flying it, its an awesome airplane, all the high tech, the big screen the iron man helmet,

Mover: was it a proficient dogfighter, was it fun to BFM with

GB: I didn't really get to fight it very much, I wouldn't be the best to answer that, but I would say that, the FCS was really, really impressive, it moves... it's (inaudible) limited, its really (inaudible) when it moves, it had high AoA just like the hornet, its more powerful and less draggy than the hornet, so, I din't really fight in it very much in my time flying it, but its really not a (inaudibe) in terms of performance.

Feel free to pick up on all the words I couldn't understand. conversation starts at 39 minutes

[steve2267]

Turning closed captioning on, some of the words phrases appear to be:

"the fcs was really really impressive it moved it was quite nimbly it was really not any slouch by any means..."

"it was definitely not a slouch in terms of performance."

[quicksilver]

“Obese...” yet, “...its more powerful and less draggy than the hornet.”

I’m shocked I tell you. Shocked.

And it’s the slowest accelerating of the three variants, no?

Recalling the hue and cry over the (2013?) spec changes.

[XanderCrews]

“Obese...” yet, “...its more powerful and less draggy than the hornet.”

I’m shocked I tell you. Shocked.

And it’s the slowest accelerating of the three variants, no?

Recalling the hue and cry over the (2013?) spec changes.

Super Hornet performance was so maligned in the late 1990s and early 2000s they made it sound like the entire US Naval Aviation enterprise (except for "the brass" of course) was on the verge of mutiny.

[KamenRiderBlade]

“Obese...” yet, “...its more powerful and less draggy than the hornet.”

I’m shocked I tell you. Shocked.

And it’s the slowest accelerating of the three variants, no?

Recalling the hue and cry over the (2013?) spec changes.

So, the Kevin Owens of the Fighter Jet world. =D

[doge]

A little excerpt on the F-35C (a.k.a. Obese Amelia)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNJY1l3XUPc&t=2687s

Interesting nice post.
I tried extracting closed caption subtitles on youtube. (Copy and paste.)

@37:00~
um you uh can we say what you flew or is

that illegal yeah yeah go ahead

all right

so hornets and then fat amy i'm sorry obese obese amelia

thank you yeah for the metric system.

obese amelia and then t45s right.

yeah there's some super hornets in there too.

super hornets all right so what is your scariest obese amelia story

oh my god

all of them

i think it's impossible it's impossible to pee in that jet i think that's what actually makes it the scariest.

oh god

that's that uh that's pretty rough because there's a qrb buckle that goes over your junk which is a lot harder to deal with and the g-suit is a little bit different and kind of all gets in the way and being in the jet is three times harder than it was in the hornet so that got pretty scary

but it can be done is what you're saying.

some guys have done i mean you find a motivated person you'll find someone that will you know jury rig some way to make it happen and someone has done it.

so i just i just make sure i go like twice before i go far.

did you wear the a tags.

no.

wow.

yeah i've heard the a tags makes it even wors.

no i didn't wear that so even with like the you know regular stuff regular gear it was still pretty uh that got pretty scary.

did you like flying it.

i love flying it. it's an awesome airplane it's uh it's super cool like i'm into all the you know the high tech and the nerdery stuff as far as like you know the big screen and the crazy iron man helmet i love that stuff and it lived up to that it was really cool.

it also had 20,000 pounds of internal gas almost so that was pretty sweet too for the first time ever not like sweating about running out of gas every five seconds like i used to before model.

was it a uh a proficient dog fighter i mean did you it was it fun to bfm with.

i didn't really get to find it very much i wouldn't be the best to answer that but i would say that the fcs was really really impressive it moved.

it was quite nimbly it was really not any slouch by any means it had a high aoa just like a hornet.

and it was more powerful and less draggy than the hornet.

so well i didn't get to really fight very much in it during my time flying it it was definitely not a slouch in terms of performance.

I'll focus on the gas 20,000lbs. (I'm a Fuel Freak!)

[doge]

Interview with F-35A Instructor Pilot, Lt. Col. Geoffrey “El Gato” Franks.
He says he will definitely go with the F-35 if he goes to war.
and...
He says that in a dogfight, the F-35 is a low-altitude Beast and doesn't bleed energy even if it sustain a lot of G's. (What!?) Wow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PgcYNd6JXI

@27:49~
Q: do you find that as technology's gotten better so since you've been around for a while seeing the different iterations of jets coming out have you noticed that the technology could almost buffer skill level to an extent.

A[Lt. Col. Geoffrey “El Gato” Franks] : no. that's a great question and it doesn't it is it requires skill sets to be manifested in a different way. but the foundation of those skills has not changed.
so not to geek out on you too much but for instance the in the f-18 hornet you know what made a good pilot in the ability to have a fast OODA loop and not just fly your jet but also like you know accomplish missions.
but what made a good pilot was the ability to use or manipulate sensors on the aircraft to gain situational awareness.
so i have to manipulate the radar or i have to manipulate the targeting forward-looking infrared radar or the targeting pod we call it. you know i have to manipulate this manipulate that.
in the f-35 which is massively advanced compared to my old aircraft i don't have to manipulate anything it just does it all of that situational awareness just shows up.

but now i have to seep through all of that and i have to process the enormous amount of situational awareness that it just delivers to me without me having to manipulate it.
and and if i don't process that and and focus on the one two three or four critical.
uh you know pieces of information amongst the hundreds of pieces of information then i'm not going to be effective.
so it's massively technologically advanced and yes if you do that well you'll be much more lethal and survivable in the aircraft i fly now versus the one i used to fly.
but the it still requires a lot of skill despite the technological leap it's just a different skill set does that make sense.

Q: yeah for sure. that's yeah that's really interesting because i feel like there's just a lot of information now like there's a lot of information to filter through and like how do you know what information is the most important.

A[Lt. Col. Geoffrey “El Gato” Franks] : like you mentioned.

Q: right so when you transitioned in from those are there like a lot of what would you say is like besides the skill set that you mentioned like there's more information that you have to filter through is there anything else that you notice like oh like i'm used to having it on my right hand or this wasn't on my left side it's like did that have to change. where the cup holder is or.

A[Lt. Col. Geoffrey “El Gato” Franks] : you know where the seat recline is yeah.
yeah so i mean uh cockpit layout so what you're what you're referring to is human machine interface or HMI.
big it's big it's a big deal um except you know so the f-18 hornet had two throttles so two engines it had two throttles that when they were basically side by side so when you put your hand on both throttles and you move them generally they both will move in the same at the same time right
the stick was in the middle and it moved a lot right now on the f-35 excuse me it's a side stick over here and it barely moves it it basically goes off of pressure so the more pressure i add the more it's going to deflect a control surface whereas in the hornet if i want a bigger control surface deflection i have to move the stick a lot.
in the f-35 the and the hornet the throttle is on the left only one engine but now it moves completely differently and it's actually not even called the throttle in the f-35 it's called an engine thrust request or an ETR.

Q: that sounds intense.

A[Lt. Col. Geoffrey “El Gato” Franks] : it is you know in the in the hornet we had so we had a heads up display and then you had a group like standard like cathode ray tube like display on the left one on the right and then you had a color display in the middle.
and the f35 basically if you took this computer and added another one and it made this a little bit longer and it was a flat screen touch display it's just one huge display right here that's all we have.
and it's a massive difference i would say so i'm really into cars i love cars and so if you were to think of like maybe a a badass like 19 late 70s early 80s muscle car like a shelby mustang or an awesome like air-cooled 911 turbo or something like that.

compare that that would be like an f-18 hornet now look at a tesla.
so they both look like cars you know 911 turbo from like the late late 70s early 80s awesome beautiful fast maneuverable.
but what does it have it has mechanical linkages right it has sprockets and bushings if you press the accelerator there's cables and pulleys that are going to open up fuel injection all this kind of stuff right look at a tesla.

so there's still the same thing i'm still pushing on a pedal but there's no there's nothing mechanical going on there you're just telling the computer how fast you want to accelerate that's very much like the f35.
there's only two switches in the cockpit where i'm not interfacing with a computer in the f-35.
and that is the canopy open and close and the ejection handle everything else all i'm doing is telling the computer what i want the jet to do and then the computer makes up its mind on how it's going to accomplish that task i have no idea.

Q: what's going on underneath the hood no idea is that a little bit more scary though because it feels like you're not i mean you're in control but the computer's also deciding like what to do for you in a sense.

A[Lt. Col. Geoffrey “El Gato” Franks] : no not really no because it's it's pretty awesome yeah yeah it's pretty amazing. um so not really it um i if i had to go to war i would definitely want to go to war in the f-35.
um if i just want to like go to an air show and like i don't know the f-18 horde is a beautiful aircraft i loved flying that thing.
do you guys know what the hornet is you ever seen the blue angels that's what the hornet is yeah that aircraft minus the blue and yellow paint.

@51:32~
A[Lt. Col. Geoffrey “El Gato” Franks] : um i wish that people in my profession understood the importance of humility and leaving egos at the door.
and um and really just understanding what are the four main components of human performance which is expectation level resources motivation and ability.
so i think sometimes people in my profession they don't understand that you know when you set high expectations generally people are going to rise to those expectations.
and so they're concerned about people's ability to accomplish things and so they just lower expectations and then humor performance goes down.
so humility and lack of ego and then those four things for human performance would be what i wish more people in my profession understood outside of my profession uh like so people that are onlookers of my profession.
um i don't think anybody really knows uh how much you know they think of a fighter pilot they just think of some dude pulling nine g's and raging around the sky.

um but it's it's all human interaction and communication understanding.
the human condition human factors and in human performance i think is is not specific to whatever the occupation is because people are still people.
and so what makes a person a good instructor of flying f-35 or making a leader for an eventual unfortunate combat situation is probably a lot of the same skills that make a person a successful business owner or things like that yeah.

Q: can you describe to us what that feels like to hit 9 g's

A[Lt. Col. Geoffrey “El Gato” Franks] : uh it can be painful yeah so uh it is a workout flying aircraft especially if we're doing what we call basic fighter maneuvers which is dog fighting.
which is one of the things that i teach so it can be exhausting um the good thing is so imagine if you're if you're on a bike you go really fast and then you like do a really sharp turn so you've got a lot of force but then what happens you stop right.
so if you pull a lot of g's like that you're depleting energy off of the jet so you may have like a spike of a lot of g's but then as you're doing that your energy is going down and so you won't be at that high g level for very long.

now when you get down low the jet especially the f-35 it is a beast down low it is so it's the most powerful jet engine ever put on a fighter aircraft.
and when it has a lot of dense air down low it can sustain a lot of g's and not bleed energy because it's just so powerful.

and it can be very exhausting so especially in the summer if we're doing a lot of dog fighting uh sometimes i'll pull back in the chucks and i feel like i have to ask them to bring a crane over to like pull me out of the aircraft.
and just carry me into an air-conditioned room because i'm just completely drenched in sweat.
and exhausted so um it's it can be very physically challenging and while the feeling those those strains on the body you have to stay sharp and continue to do the OODA loop while that's happening so yeah.
but i guess if i were to sum it up it's three times harder than i thought anything could possibly be but it's also ten times as fun as i thought anything could possibly do.

[spazsinbad]

Parts + of video transcript in MP3 format (remember the 11Mb file size restriction which is killing - but there'll be more).

[zero-one]

RAAF squadron leader Red Borrman mentions that he pulled 9 and half Gs in his F-35A (see 12:35). https://youtu.be/g9t9bsUPzFg

This is all well and good but I'm confused. I thought the F-35 and other FCS controlled aircraft are hard limited. Does this confirm that the F-35 has a G override switch or is it a simple case of out smarting the aircraft and pulling more Gs than what the FCS allows

[Dragon029]

Most aircraft with G-limiters can still accidentally exceed them; there's a balance that has to be struck between minor exceedances in G force, and with responsiveness, etc.

[sprstdlyscottsmn]

as Dragon said, it happens when the onset/pitch rate is so high that the aircraft hits an AoA that generates enough lift to exceed the limit before the tails can deflect enough to bring the AoA down to where the G limit is not being exceeded. This is NOT a case of hitting 9.5G and holding it until you release stick or bleed off speed, this is a case of tapping 9.5 G before the FCS brought you back to 9. Happens in Vipers all the time.

[Gums]

Salute!

It was not uncommon to see more or less than 9 gees on FCF's or even a hard break turn/yank in the early days, and that was with a hardwired analog computer with zero sample rate like the later digital FLCS.

My hardest break had 8.7 gees on the tape, but others saw more on theirs.

The basic momentum of the maneuver can easily exceed the ability of the tail to arrest the pitch. Also, the CAS has a lot to do with the pitch moment authority of the tail.

Gums sends...

[spazsinbad]

RAAF squadron leader Red Borrman mentions that he pulled 9 and half Gs in his F-35A (see 12:35). https://youtu.be/g9t9bsUPzFg ...."

What a shame the LOUD Public Address system interferes understanding what is being said in this interview otherwise.

[quicksilver]

As a matter of design, if they were to have the fcs prevent such occurrences (as described above) , it would make the aircraft sluggish in response to control inputs near the lift limits of the jet (witness some prominent designs that shall remain nameless).

[steve2267]

As a matter of design, if they were to have the fcs prevent such occurrences (as described above) , it would make the aircraft sluggish in response to control inputs near the lift limits of the jet (witness some prominent designs that shall remain nameless).

I seem to rcall a dogfighting test with a Falcon circa 2016... Created quite the bruhaha.