F-35B (Non-US) Pocket Carriers

[Corsair1963]

My guess is the final design will look somewhat different.......(regardless of some sources)

[spazsinbad]

My guess is the final design will look somewhat different.......(regardless of some sources)

I don't get it. The design is the design is the design. How will it LOOK different? Who/What are the sources? I don't get it.

[spazsinbad]

Now here is a source that can be considered - quite rightly it is early days for the LPX II design and a long way to go prolly.

RoKN unveils revised conceptual design for future light aircraft carrier
06 Jan 2021 Gabriel Dominguez & Dae Young Kim

"The Republic of Korea Navy (RoKN) unveiled on 3 January a revised conceptual design for its future next-generation light aircraft carrier....

...The RoKN pointed out, however, that the latest conceptual design can be further revised during the basic and detailed designed stages...." [THIS IS THE KOREAN NAVY SAYING THIS - not stumblyJane]

Source: https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news ... ft-carrier

[Corsair1963]

My guess is the final design will look somewhat different.......(regardless of some sources)

I don't get it. The design is the design is the design. How will it LOOK different? Who/What are the sources? I don't get it.

The design has already changed from 30,000 to 40,000 tons and from one Island to two. This within the last 3-4 months. Plus, the contract to build the ships hasn't been signed. Supposedly sometime between 2021 - 2022.....


Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the design doesn't become larger. As we hear more news about the French PANG and Chinese Type 004!


Regardless, just expressing my personal opinion........

[spazsinbad]

'doge' has posted an article about "F-35B tests aboard CAVOUR soon" here: viewtopic.php?f=58&t=24829&p=448398&hilit=wonderful#p448398

Italian Navy Aircraft Carrier Cavour To Start F-35B Qualification Next Month Xavier Vavasseur 12 Jan 2021 "The Italian Navy (Marina Militare) flagship, the aircraft carrier ITS Cavour, is set to reach Naval Station Norfolk in mid-February to start F-35B STOVL aircraft qualifications with the U.S. Marine Corps...." https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... ext-month/

[spazsinbad]

Another 'doge' post about CAVOUR leaving for USofA for F-35B tests: viewtopic.php?f=58&t=24829&p=449219&hilit=route#p449219

[jessmo112]

Surely this is unprecedented, with so many carriers floating around in the pacific soon.
Indeed before long you will be able to walk from Diego Garcia to Guam by hopping from deck to deck. If this pace keeps up. Has there ever been a time when so many pacific countries are arming them selves with Carriers and fighters?

1. U.S.
2. China
3. South Korea.
4. Japan
5. Singapore is looking at the Possible endurance class
6. India
7. Even the British are back sailing the high seas.

Back during the Cold war days did we have this many players wanting to build carriers?

Is it the Chinese fueling this Naval Arms race or Just technical progression? Has the F-35B ushered in a new era? Australia had better hurry up
Or they will be the only country thats wealthy but out of the new Yacht club!

[spazsinbad]

US Navy begins F-35B work-up for Italy [IF anyone can see the rest of this article to post here that would be nice]
09 Feb 2021 Gareth Jennings

"The US Navy (USN) has begun land-based test flights ahead of sending a Lockheed Martin F-35B Lighting II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) detachment to the Italian Navy (Marina Militare Italiana: MMI) short take-off and vertical landing (STOVL)-configured aircraft carrier ITS Cavour.

The first US Marine Corps (USMC) Air Test and Evaluation Squadron (VX)-23 ‘Salty Dogs’ pilot from the F-35 Patuxent River Integrated Test Force (ITF) at Naval Air Station (NAS) Patuxent River, Maryland, began STOVL training in early February.

“This Field Carrier Landing Practice (FLCP) flight training is integral to preparing pilots for the ITF test team’s detachment to the Italian Navy aircraft carrier Cavour scheduled between February and March,” the USN said. “During carrier-based flight tests, also known as sea trials, ITF members with engineering and test pilot expertise and experience will gather data that will verify compatibility between the ‘fifth generation’ fighter aircraft and the Italian naval fleet's flagship. This information will contribute to certifying the ship for the Italian Navy’s operation of its own F-35Bs, the key weapon system of the carrier.” News of the USN work-up came days after the MMI announced that Cavour..."

Source: https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news ... -for-italy

[madrat]

Surely this is unprecedented, with so many carriers floating around in the pacific soon.
Indeed before long you will be able to walk from Diego Garcia to Guam by hopping from deck to deck. If this pace keeps up. Has there ever been a time when so many pacific countries are arming them selves with Carriers and fighters?

1. U.S.
2. China
3. South Korea.
4. Japan
5. Singapore is looking at the Possible endurance class
6. India
7. Even the British are back sailing the high seas.

Back during the Cold war days did we have this many players wanting to build carriers?

Is it the Chinese fueling this Naval Arms race or Just technical progression? Has the F-35B ushered in a new era? Australia had better hurry up
Or they will be the only country thats wealthy but out of the new Yacht club!

Good question.

[weasel1962]

In 1939, there were ~6000 merchant ships globally. There was over 100 CVE/CVLs to defend that shipping by 1945. Today there are over 53000 ships in global merchant fleets. Each of these ships individually larger than those in 1939.

I would assume SLOC defense is a key requirement in APAC where maritime trade drives the economies. If one looks at piracy attacks in the gulf, it is clear that US CVNs cannot be everywhere to defend SLOCs (nor is it fair for US alone to take up this burden). Lucky for Europe that Russia is no longer an Atlantic threat but still UK, France, Italy & Spain maintain some capability.

China may also be buying carriers to defend their SLOC e.g. from Indian ocean interdiction but ironically raises threat calculations elsewhere.

Even a non-F-35B equipped, helo only CVE/LHD enhances (ASW) defenses which adds Australia and Taiwan (also looking at LHDs) into the equation. An F-35B equipped LHD can imho make a difference.

[Corsair1963]

In 1939, there were ~6000 merchant ships globally. There was over 100 CVE/CVLs to defend that shipping by 1945. Today there are over 53000 ships in global merchant fleets. Each of these ships individually larger than those in 1939.

I would assume SLOC defense is a key requirement in APAC where maritime trade drives the economies. If one looks at piracy attacks in the gulf, it is clear that US CVNs cannot be everywhere to defend SLOCs (nor is it fair for US alone to take up this burden). Lucky for Europe that Russia is no longer an Atlantic threat but still UK, France, Italy & Spain maintain some capability.

China may also be buying carriers to defend their SLOC e.g. from Indian ocean interdiction but ironically raises threat calculations elsewhere.

Even a non-F-35B equipped, helo only CVE/LHD enhances (ASW) defenses which adds Australia and Taiwan (also looking at LHDs) into the equation. An F-35B equipped LHD can imho make a difference.

I agree as even a handful of F-35B's. Could be critical under a number of scenarios......

[spazsinbad]

U.S. 2nd Fleet Welcomes Italian Aircraft Carrier ITS Cavour to Norfolk, Va.
12 Feb 2021 Courtesy Story Commander, U.S. 2nd Fleet

"NORFOLK, Va. (NNS) – The Italian Navy flagship, the aircraft carrier ITS Cavour (CVH 550), arrived at Naval Station Norfolk, Va. Feb 13 for a series of operations alongside U.S. military assets to attain the Italian Navy’s “Ready for Operations” certification to safely land and launch F-35B aircraft.

While in the Western Atlantic, Cavour will be embarked by an F-35 Joint Program Office (JPO) test team to conduct sea trials, a series of tests and functional activities to create a safe flight operating envelope for the short takeoff and vertical landing (STOVL) variant of the 5th generation aircraft aboard the recently upgraded ship.
This carrier-based flight test and other actions with U.S. 2nd Fleet ships and aircraft improve interoperability and strengthen the relationship between two NATO Allies....

...The F-35 Pax River Integrated Test Force (ITF) team from Naval Air Station Patuxent River, Md. (NAS PAX River) comprises almost 200 people with the engineering and test pilot expertise and experience to conduct F-35B envelope expansion flight test, two specially instrumented developmental flight test aircraft, and support equipment.

“Italy is a critically important Cooperative Program Partner in the F-35 enterprise,” said Andrew Maack, F-35 Pax River ITF chief test engineer and site director. “We are excited to get underway with the sailors of Cavour and honored to contribute to the aircraft carrier achieving the Italian Navy’s strategic goal of it being ‘Ready for Operations,’” Maack said. “We look forward to a phenomenally successful shipboard detachment.”..."

Photo: "Photo By Petty Officer 1st Class Joshua Sheppard | Italian Navy flagship, the aircraft carrier ITS Cavour (CVH 550), arrives at Naval Station Norfolk, Va., Feb 13. The Cavour's visit is part of a series of operations alongside U.S. military assets to attain the Italian Navy's "Ready for Operations" certification to safely land and launch F-35B aircraft. (U.S. Navy photo by Capt. Cassidy Norman)" https://www.dvidshub.net/download/image/6519684 (jpg 1.4Mb)

Source: https://www.dvidshub.net/news/389024/us ... norfolk-va

[Corsair1963]

You would think they would plan that for later in the year. When the weather is much much better..............(just saying)

[spazsinbad]

Huh? Since when has any navy been bothered by the weather? Have you ever been to sea? Crikey. Wet & Windy is forecast.

[Corsair1963]

Huh? Since when has any navy been bothered by the weather? Have you ever been to sea? Crikey. Wet & Windy is forecast.

We are talking about the first work up.