F-35B (Non-US) Pocket Carriers

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noth

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Unread post10 Jun 2021, 03:01

Nice designs. That Hyundai CVX model which is clearly modeled on the Queen Elizabeth class is missing one of its tricks: the double length lift so you can carry two aircraft at once. I like the rear lower deck for launching VTOL UAVs. Hopefully they're collaberate with the UK on the design to take in the lessons learnt especially on automatisation of work.

The LHA/LHD design seems to be too narrow to take advantage of SRVL. A bit conservative but it would be very familiar to US Marines.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post10 Jun 2021, 05:12

CVX.jpg



CVX1.jpg



CVX2.jpg



CVX3.jpg
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Unread post10 Jun 2021, 05:14

The hull design looks very much like the French PANG.... :?:
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Unread post10 Jun 2021, 11:33

MADEX 2021: DSME Unveils its CVX Light Aircraft Carrier Design
10 Jun 2021 Daehan Lee

"Daewoo Shipbuilding and Marine Engineering Co., Ltd (DSME) revealed its planned light aircraft carrier, called CVX, which reportedly meets operational needs for the Republic of Korea Navy (ROKN) during MADEX in Busan, on June 9th, 2021. According to DSME, their CVX is 45,000 tons with a crew complement of 1,400 sailors and maximum sailing speed of 27 knots. It features a flat deck unlike the ski-jump-based aircraft carrier proposed by Hyundai Heavy Industries (HHI).

A Senior Engineer from HHI commented that the DSME is actually 38,000 tons because DSME wrote the loaded displacement tonnage, but DSME’s Principal Engineer and General Manager emphasized practicality of the CVX construction, noting that its carrier model reflects maritime strategic needs and requirements that the ROKN has demanded to shipyards. Following interviews with the ROK Navy and DSME, the Korean Navy’s demands include both helicopters and fixed wong operations, and space efficiency without a ski-jump to load more jets and helicopters onboard.

The manager and engineer of DSME expected that its CVX could accommodate 12 and 16 jets respectively in its hangar and on the flight deck...."

Photo: https://g7a6v6x7.rocketcdn.me/wp-conten ... 4x576.jpeg & https://g7a6v6x7.rocketcdn.me/wp-conten ... 4x576.jpeg & https://g7a6v6x7.rocketcdn.me/wp-conten ... Design.jpg

Source: https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... er-design/
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Deck&HangarF-35BsKoreanDesign.jpg
Deck&HangarF-35BsKoreanDesign2.jpg
Deck&HangarF-35BsKoreanDesignDSMEboth.jpg
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Fox1

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Unread post12 Jun 2021, 03:57

What sort of weapons load can an F-35B model carry when flying off a ship of this type in STOVL mode? If it can get airborne with a serious weapons load and receive fuel from something like an MV-22 tanker while en-route to a target as well as returning from the strike, it would be possible to hold targets at risk a great distance from these little "Lightning Carriers". And when I say "serious" weapons load, I'm talking about getting airborne with something like a JASSM-ER class weapon hanging underneath each wing. The B model paired with a weapon that has the range of the JASSM-ER and with a little tanking support from an MV-22, it would be quite possible to attack heavily defended targets as far out as 1200 to maybe even 1500 miles from the ship. It certainly makes me regard the capability that can be attained by employing the F-35B from a CVL in a different light altogether.
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zhangmdev

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Unread post12 Jun 2021, 04:24

So far in operational flights F-35B can takeoff with 4 external 500 lb bombs. So it should be able to carry two 1000 lb weapons exteranlly.
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Unread post12 Jun 2021, 04:56

Every minimum run take off from a flat deck (with or without ski jump) or on land depends upon wind over the deck/runway and temperature AT LEAST. We know the F-35B can STO from a flat USMC ship with full internals weapons/fuel in 600 or less feet in 'standard conditions' (I'd have to look these up AGAIN - KPP - but they are nothing new). We also know an UK F-35B can STO off the ski jump in approx. 850 feet in similar weather with MAXIMUM LOADOUT (for the UK - also described elsewhere). One can speculate ad infinitum about other STO circumstances for the F-35B but WITHOUT a graph/table of weight/weather & deck length with/without a ski jump (where the relevant data about said ski jump needs to be known) then BABBLE AWAY! :roll: Recall a ship can increase speed INTO THE WIND to increase the WOD above a standard ten knots or so, thus within other seaway conditions caused by increased ship speed - plus the sea conditions at the time - then more weight may be carried. That ability really makes a fixed runway STO look rather sad because then the DIRECTION of the wind also needs to be factored (which may decrease the actual wind down the runway effect because of the crosswind component). CHUCK in altitude of the land runway to further decrease weight carrying ability (ship always at sea level).
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Unread post12 Jun 2021, 22:32

noth wrote:Nice designs. That Hyundai CVX model which is clearly modeled on the Queen Elizabeth class is missing one of its tricks: the double length lift so you can carry two aircraft at once. I like the rear lower deck for launching VTOL UAVs. Hopefully they're collaberate with the UK on the design to take in the lessons learnt especially on automatisation of work.

The LHA/LHD design seems to be too narrow to take advantage of SRVL. A bit conservative but it would be very familiar to US Marines.


No sign of collaboration with the UK. Only UK content would be the Rolls Royce MT-30 powerplant (already used by SK). The islands are also placed further aft. Apart from the twin towers there's little real similarity. The UK did come up with this, but like most things its a sensible engineering approach for ships using IEP and GT's. It's a choice that almost makes itself.

Although it looks good the HHI design is actually appallingly inefficient for a 60k design, the aviation facilities in particular are not well thought out.

DSME's design is actually the more likely to win. They just signed a collaboration with the Italian's. The Italian's experience with the near identical Trieste will come in to play.
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Unread post12 Jun 2021, 22:44

Another good answer about the TWINS on the QE class: https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/why-doe ... o-islands/
Why does HMS Queen Elizabeth have two islands? 24 May 2019 George Allison [2 page PDF below]
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Why does HMS Queen Elizabeth have two islands pp2.pdf
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Unread post13 Jun 2021, 18:06

South Korean shipbuilders unveil competing carrier designs
11 Jun 2021 Brian Kim

"BUSAN, South Korea — Two shipbuilders have each displayed their conceptual designs for the South Korean Navy’s future light aircraft carrier, code-named CVX. The South Korean companies unveiled their offerings at the four-day International Maritime Defense Industry Exhibition, a biennial naval defense show, which began June 9 in the southern port city of Busan.

The MADEX show is taking place four months after South Korea’s arms procurement agency announced the government tentatively earmarked about $2 billion to build a homemade 30,000-ton aircraft carrier to enter service by 2033. The Defense Ministry is conducting a feasibility study of the project for final approval by the National Assembly.

Hyundai Heavy Industries’ model
Hyundai Heavy Industries, which had won a contract for the conceptual design of the CVX last year, unveiled an offering that featured a modular, ski jump-styled takeoff ramp, a key feature akin to the British Royal Navy’s Queen Elizabeth class.

The shipyard displayed a 1-to-400 scale model of its proposed carrier, which would be 270 meters long and 60 meters wide. The carrier, with its twin island superstructures, would have a displacement of 30,000-35,000 tons and a full-load displacement of 45,000-50,000 tons, according to an HHI spokesman.

“This new design suggests a flight deck 30 percent larger than the former design and an optional ski jump ramp over the bow with a view to improve operational capabilities of fighter jets onboard,” the spokesman told Defense News on June 11. “The modular ski jump could be removed and the flight deck could be modified to accept a catapult.”

The carrier would be able to carry up to 16 short-takeoff-and-vertical-landing aircraft on its flight deck and a further eight in its hanger, he said. The ski jump-styled takeoff ramp would permit jets without the STOVL capability to more easily launch from the ship. In addition, some 24 helicopters could be flown with the CVX. The proposed model has an auxiliary deck at the stern for operating small rotary-wing drones and an adapted well deck from which to deploy unmanned surface vehicles or unmanned underwater vehicles.

The spokesman revealed his company has a contract with U.K.-based Babcock International for consultancy services related to the basic design of the CVX. Babcock is a member of the Aircraft Carrier Alliance, which built both the Prince of Wales and Queen Elizabeth carriers. HHI will need to rely on British industry once the CVX program progresses, he noted.... [then text about need for info about F-35B & heat resistant deck materials]

Daewoo Shipbuilding and Marine Engineering’s model
Daewoo Shipbuilding and Marine Engineering showcased a 1-to-125 scale model of its CVX proposal, which also features a twin-island arrangement but no ski jump ramp. Hoping to compete to win a contract in the detailed design phase, DSME displayed a proposed model that has large similarities to the one suggested by the South Korean Navy.

According to the dockyard, the proposed carrier would be 263 meter long and 46.6 meters wide. It has a full displacement of 45,000 tons with a maximum sailing speed of 27 knots. The carrier would be capable of carrying up to 16 STOVL fighter jets on its flight deck and 12 more in its hangar.

Unlike HHI’s proposed model, DSME offers a flight deck-based carrier featuring anti-drone defense systems, which the shipyard claims would meet maritime strategic needs and operational requirements of the South Korean Navy. On the first day of MADEX, the shipbuilder signed a memorandum of understanding with Italy’s Fincantieri to assist with the conceptual design for the CVX project.

“Fincantieri will advise DSME based on the expertise gained with the construction of the LHD [landing helicopter dock] ‘Trieste,’ which will be delivered next year to the Italian Navy,” the Italian firm said in a statement, “With this agreement, Fincantieri strengthens its presence in the country, further boosting the relationship with the Republic of Korea.”... [then info about potential engines]

Photos: "Hyundai Heavy Industries' proposed aircraft carrier design. (Brian Kim/Staff)" https://www.armytimes.com/resizer/THcBz ... uality(100)/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/mco/OFX7ZFNJTZHCDDW5IKRKQLUZZU.jpg
&
"DSME's proposed aircraft carrier design. (Brian Kim/Staff)" https://www.armytimes.com/resizer/3JIVg ... uality(100)/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/mco/ZO5DFEBT5RDYNB72IO46YQ3T2M.jpg


Source: https://www.defensenews.com/industry/te ... r-designs/
Attachments
HyundaiF-35BcarrierKoreanJun2021.jpg
DSMEkoreanF-35BcarrierROKNjun2021.jpg
Last edited by spazsinbad on 13 Jun 2021, 22:43, edited 2 times in total.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post13 Jun 2021, 22:31

So, that would make the HHI version of the CVX very similar is size and capability to the Queen Elizabeth Class. Which, in fact are "large aircraft carriers".
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Unread post13 Jun 2021, 22:52

Corsair1963 wrote:So, that would make the HHI version of the CVX very similar is size and capability to the Queen Elizabeth Class. Which, in fact are "large aircraft carriers".

QE Class "overall length of 280 metres (920 ft), a width at deck level of 70 metres (230 ft)" comparable to HHI "270 meters [886 feet] long and 60 meters [197 feet] wide". Would be nice to know top speed of the HHI CVX - QE class is 25-26 knots.
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Unread post14 Jun 2021, 02:20

spazsinbad wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:So, that would make the HHI version of the CVX very similar is size and capability to the Queen Elizabeth Class. Which, in fact are "large aircraft carriers".

QE Class "overall length of 280 metres (920 ft), a width at deck level of 70 metres (230 ft)" comparable to HHI "270 meters [886 feet] long and 60 meters [197 feet] wide". Would be nice to know top speed of the HHI CVX - QE class is 25-26 knots.



The DMSE Version is stated to have a Top Speed of 27 knots. Yet, haven't heard anything about the HHI version......but my guess is it would be very similar.
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Unread post14 Jun 2021, 03:35

Agree. So given the deck length of the HHI skyjUmp version one could easily surmise that a South Korean F-35B embarked could STO with the equivalent UK RN/RAF heaviest loadout [HUMUNGOID BEASTLY] easily on a standard environment day.
[UK F-35B Max. Load (now years old so it may have changed?) "...maximum weapon payload of 6 Paveway IV, 2 AIM-120C AMRAAM, 2 AIM-132 ASRAAM & a missionised 25mm gun pod..."
LIGHTNING STRIKES winter 2012_13 ETS
“...Onboard the Queen Elizabeth aircraft carriers, the aircraft would take off at its maximum weight of nearly 27 tonnes using a UK-developed ski-jump,...” 2204.62lbs = 1 tonne 59,535lbs = 27 tonnes [Wing Commander Hackett explained]"
http://content.yudu.com/A219ee/ETSWin12 ... ces/20.htm

OLDEN claims: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=53673&p=382315&hilit=kosogorin#p382315

OLD pointers: viewtopic.php?f=55&t=57461&p=445492&hilit=kosogorin#p445492

CVF STO Ski Jump Deck F-35B Sim Details Pilot [Pete Kosogorin BAE test pilot: “...STO 800 feet with FULL operational load [F-35B CVF off Ski Jump]...” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxezKrL6apQ

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Unread post14 Jun 2021, 03:50

The proposed HHI CVX is nothing short of impressive! You have to give South Korea a lot of credit......assuming they build it?



CVX.jpg
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