F-35B (Non-US) Pocket Carriers

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ricnunes

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Unread post21 Apr 2021, 12:48

LoL indeed!

Something tells me that the "Naval Hürjet" will be the Turkish name for Harrier. This is if Turkey really wants to have fighter fixed wing capability operating from its LHD. :wink:

Buying used Harriers would again be the only choice for the Turkish Navy since its basically the only aircraft besides the F-35B that can operate from LHDs and there are or there will be used Harriers available in the market. For instance the British still have some mothballed Harriers, no? Italy is now starting to replace their Harriers with F-35Bs. It's also predicted that Spain could follow the same move.

Oh, and the above goes in line with the historical fact that Turkey often buys (or used to buy) second hand fighter aircraft from other NATO countries.
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post21 Apr 2021, 14:54

British Harriers were bought by the USMC some years ago to be used for spare parts IIRC.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-15876745 UK sells 72 retired Harrier jump jets for $180m to US 24 Nov 2011

https://www.forces.net/services/tri-ser ... languishes 2015 Where Are They Now? Once-Mighty Harrier Fleet Languishes
The United States Sanctions Turkey Under CAATSA 231
14 Dec 2020 US Government

"...The sanctions include a ban on all U.S. export licenses and authorizations..."

Source: https://gr.usembassy.gov/the-united-sta ... aatsa-231/
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ricnunes

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Unread post21 Apr 2021, 15:15

spazsinbad wrote:British Harriers were bought by the USMC some years ago to be used for spare parts IIRC.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-15876745 UK sells 72 retired Harrier jump jets for $180m to US 24 Nov 2011

https://www.forces.net/services/tri-ser ... languishes 2015 Where Are They Now? Once-Mighty Harrier Fleet Languishes
The United States Sanctions Turkey Under CAATSA 231
14 Dec 2020 US Government

"...The sanctions include a ban on all U.S. export licenses and authorizations..."

Source: https://gr.usembassy.gov/the-united-sta ... aatsa-231/


Thanks spaz, I wasn't aware of that!

Regarding British Harriers, last time I checked they still use Sea Harriers at the Royal Navy School of Flight Deck Operations and although these are in working condition they are configured to have a limited throttle (basically only for taxiing). I don't know if it would be 'feasible' (or 'relatively easy' would be a more accurate term) to put those Sea Harriers into flying condition?
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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Unread post21 Apr 2021, 15:20

What parts of these UK Dummy Deck Harriers would be sanctioned by USA CAATSA? How many are there? A pitiful number.
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ricnunes

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Unread post21 Apr 2021, 15:39

spazsinbad wrote:What parts of these UK Dummy Deck Harriers would be sanctioned by USA CAATSA? How many are there? A pitiful number.


The main reason why I mentioned and remembered about the Sea Harrier in my last post was because it shouldn't be subjected to any US export laws since the Sea Harrier (as well as the Harrier GR.1 and GR.3 or resuming the Harrier I) is a full British technology from the airframe itself to the engine, radar, etc... Or resuming and as far as I know the Sea Harrier shouldn't have any US parts in it.
Although you could be right about the number of currently available Sea Harriers.
But then again, this would/should IMO still be much more feasible option than the "Naval Hürjet"... :roll:
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Unread post21 Apr 2021, 16:16

I can take time to google the number of DUMMY DECK SHARS at where ever - you can also - they'd make a MIGHTY force.

The Indian Navy had Harriers - what has become of them? Another google project for somebody.
"NEW DELHI — The Indian Navy has retired the Sea Harrier fleet that operated from its aircraft carrier INS Viraat, and plans to replace them with MiG- 29Ks .... The Indian Navy bought 30 British-made Sea Harriers in 1983 but only 11 now remain. The Navy once considered upgrading the Sea Harriers but abandoned the plan....

...The retired Sea Harriers have now been mothballed at the Indian Navy's Air Station in Goa before being distributed as museum pieces, the Indian Navy official said." 21 Mar 2016 https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2016/ ... -harriers/
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ricnunes

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Unread post21 Apr 2021, 17:18

spazsinbad wrote:I can take time to google the number of DUMMY DECK SHARS at where ever - you can also - they'd make a MIGHTY force.


According to the link below:
http://www.demobbed.org.uk/aircraft.php?type=963

There are seven (7) Sea Harrier FA.2 plus one (1) Harrier T8 (essentially a two seater/trainer version of the Sea Harrier FA.2) 'serving' in the Royal Navy School of Flight Deck Operations.

spazsinbad wrote:The Indian Navy had Harriers - what has become of them? Another google project for somebody.
"NEW DELHI — The Indian Navy has retired the Sea Harrier fleet that operated from its aircraft carrier INS Viraat, and plans to replace them with MiG- 29Ks .... The Indian Navy bought 30 British-made Sea Harriers in 1983 but only 11 now remain. The Navy once considered upgrading the Sea Harriers but abandoned the plan....

...The retired Sea Harriers have now been mothballed at the Indian Navy's Air Station in Goa before being distributed as museum pieces, the Indian Navy official said." 21 Mar 2016 https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2016/ ... -harriers/


Yes, purchasing old Indian Navy Sea Harriers could be a possibility if the Turkish Navy wants a fixed wing fighter aircraft operating from its LHD, this if the Indian Sea Harriers are still serviceable or can be brought back into service.
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Unread post21 Apr 2021, 17:24

STRAWS... clutching... 30 year old aircraft if that... specialised pilot training... Turkey could try I guess but they won't.
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Unread post21 Apr 2021, 19:25

spazsinbad wrote:STRAWS... clutching... 30 year old aircraft if that... specialised pilot training... Turkey could try I guess but they won't.


Yes, I fully with you.
However I can't see another possibility for Turkey to have fixed wing fighter aircraft operating from its LHD ship as they (Turks) won't be getting the F-35B for sure and like you said buying used AV-8Bs is probably not a possibility as well due to the US 'embargo'.
Again, as far fetched as the "Sea Harrier idea" may look like, at least (and in IMO) it should be much more feasible than the Naval Hürjet, won't you agree?
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Unread post21 Apr 2021, 21:22

Unless Turkey gives HER JET some unheard of capability along with humungous modifications to 'ANADOLOUie the neva' then I see a future UAV & Helo use for their smaller LHD. The UK is looking to launch UAVs PERHAPS using "cats & 'flaps'" outlined here but 'looking' is not CLAIMING it will happen: https://www.navylookout.com/cats-traps- ... ed-drones/
Cats, traps and UAS – the Royal Navy considers options for carrier-launched drones 14 Apr 2021 NAVY LOOKOUT
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Unread post22 Apr 2021, 00:05

spazsinbad wrote:Unless Turkey gives HER JET some unheard of capability along with humungous modifications to 'ANADOLOUie the neva' then I see a future UAV & Helo use for their smaller LHD. The UK is looking to launch UAVs PERHAPS using "cats & 'flaps'" outlined here but 'looking' is not CLAIMING it will happen: https://www.navylookout.com/cats-traps- ... ed-drones/
Cats, traps and UAS – the Royal Navy considers options for carrier-launched drones 14 Apr 2021 NAVY LOOKOUT


In the case of the Turkish LHD. Clearly, some type of drone would be a far better option... :|


IMHO
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Unread post22 Apr 2021, 12:32

I don't believe for a moment that India would sell Sea Harrier to the Turks.
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Unread post22 Apr 2021, 22:14

Corsair1963 wrote:
spazsinbad wrote:Unless Turkey gives HER JET some unheard of capability along with humungous modifications to 'ANADOLOUie the neva' then I see a future UAV & Helo use for their smaller LHD. The UK is looking to launch UAVs PERHAPS using "cats & 'flaps'" outlined here but 'looking' is not CLAIMING it will happen: https://www.navylookout.com/cats-traps- ... ed-drones/
Cats, traps and UAS – the Royal Navy considers options for carrier-launched drones 14 Apr 2021 NAVY LOOKOUT


In the case of the Turkish LHD. Clearly, some type of drone would be a far better option... :|


IMHO


Indeed, using drones would be a 'better' or at least 'more feasible' option but these wouldn't be fighter aircraft and of course wouldn't be manned.

However the Sea Harrier 'possibility' that I previously [edited last word: f** autocorrect spelling] mentioned would be if Turkey really, really wants to operate a manned fighter aircraft (something that a drone wouldn't be) from its LHD ship.
Last edited by ricnunes on 23 Apr 2021, 11:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread post22 Apr 2021, 22:17

madrat wrote:I don't believe for a moment that India would sell Sea Harrier to the Turks.


For what's worth I also don't believe that Turkey will buy Sea Harriers (from both India or UK). Again, I was just thinking about the only chance that Turkey could 'pursue' if it really wants to operate a manned fighter aircraft from its LHD ship.

But I'm curious to know why do you think that India would never sell their (already retired) Sea Harriers to the Turks?
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Unread post22 Apr 2021, 23:39

IIRC Indian Navy Harriers were mothballed (whatever that means) then given to museums (by what process undergone)?
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