F-35B (Non-US) Pocket Carriers

Discuss the F-35 Lightning II
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spazsinbad

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Unread post21 Jun 2021, 19:08

I like the HEAD BOBBING <sarc off> reminds me of the silly head bobbing in the old Microsoft Flight Simulator Pilot. :doh:
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Unread post22 Jun 2021, 06:43

noth wrote:In this conversation at the Hudson Institute, the Air Chief Marshall Sir Mike Wigston says the F-35B will be flying with the UK into the 2060s if not later: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gno8-aiL6mw


The P-51 Mustang flew into the 1960's at least. Yet, that doesn't mean I would prefer to take one into combat during that period.....


Just like I wouldn't want to take a Mig-21 into combat today!
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Unread post28 Jun 2021, 16:25

Several mentions of MARADO in this thread (and a few elsewhere) particularly for the possibility to operate F-35Bs but no mention of this in the article below. Similarly sister ship DOKDO has been mentioned in the same way for F-35B usage.
South Korea Commissions Second Dokdo-class Amphibious Ship ROKS Marado (LPH-6112)
28 Jun 2021 Daehan Lee

"The Republic of Korea Navy (ROKN)’s second Dokdo-class Amphibious Assault Ship, ROKS Marado (LPH-6112, Landing Platform Helicopter), was commissioned today, June 28th 2021. ROKS Marado was built based on data and operational experience that the Navy has acquired from the previous ROKS Dokdo (LPH-6111) since 2007.

ROKS Marado has a light displacement of 14,800 tons (19,000 tons full load displacement). It has a length of 200 meters, a beam of 31 meters and a draft of 6.6 meters. The ship has a crew complement of 330 sailors and is capable of carrying 720 marines, 6 MBTs, 7 KAAVs, 2 LCACs, and 7 to 12 helicopters such as the MUH-1s and recently selected MAH helicopters.

It is armed with 4 KVLS cells that launch a total of 16 K-SAAM (surface-to-air missiles) Sea Bow, and 2 Phalanx Block 1Bs close-in weapon systems (CIWS). It also features K-Dagaie NG decoy launching systems with new generation decoys (SEALEM and SEALIR) by Lacroix. Key components and equipment for propellers and elevator have also been localized. By carrying out reinforcement work for the side of Marado, the ship is now capable to bear the load of 60 tons (previously 25 tons). This is likely linked to the ability of Marado to accommodate the V-22 Osprey (unlike Dokdo).

Compared to ROKS Dokdo, ROKS Marado benefits from significantly improved anti-air and flight systems. ROKS Marado flight deck can accommodate the V-22 Osprey tilt rotor aircraft. The flight control (FLYCO) tower’s design was changed and its location moved from the front to the rear of the island.... [lots of details about weapon systems etc.]

...The ROKN will officially deploy LPH Marado after a series of Initial Operational Capability (IOC) tests for its crews from July to December this year. Its home port will be Jinhae. In 2022, the ROKN possessing two Amphibious Assault Ships (Dokdo and Marado) will consider deploying them to the annual training, called MIDCRU (Midshipman Cruising). Additionally, local media reported that the Navy is considering using it as a host ship to welcome the British Royal Navy’s aircraft carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth that will visit the ROK Fleet Command in Busan in August and September 2021."



Source: https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... -lph-6112/
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Unread post07 Jul 2021, 16:23

British CSG21 had sailed past Suez, RAF/USMC Bees participated in attacks on (what remains of) ISIL and had rather close encounters and shadowing with Russian Fleet and Air Force operating out of Syria (Khmeimim and Tartus) in Eastern Mediterranean, so it is becoming rather an eventful journey so far.

Do You think they would be operating with or without Luneburg lens - it's not likely that ISIL would have capable AA defenses that would require full-stealth to counter, while on the other hand it's not really smart to give away the Russians the true capabilities and characteristics of the plane (also it's better to be visible in these tit for tat flybys to avoid some accident).

PS: Do You (for the sake of the topic) consider QE Class a Pocket-Carrier (as it's 65000 tonnes). It does fall under Non-US part of the topic (though again there are USMC planes operating from it)?
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Unread post07 Jul 2021, 20:35

Rong Trousers. Thread for CVF/QE class UK aircraft carriers long running is here: viewtopic.php?f=58&t=15969&p=456219#p456219 SCROLLING BACKWARDS from URL we can see one LENS under aft fuselage here:
"617 Squadron jets flying from the carrier, on operation SHADER seen from supporting RAF Voyager air-air refuelling aircraft" https://www.navylookout.com/wp-content/ ... Shader.jpg via download/file.php?id=35618

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Unread post20 Jul 2021, 09:00

Japan’s Izumo Helicopter Destroyer Modified To Operate F-35B Fighters
20 Jul 2021 Yoshihiro Inaba

"On June 25, 2021, the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force (JMSDF) DDH Izumo arrived at its home port, Yokosuka in Kanagawa Prefecture, after a year and three months of modifications. The first phase of the modification work to operate F-35B is now complete.

This modification is intended to add F-35B operational capability to the Izumo, and was carried out in conjunction with the large-scale scheduled maintenance that will be performed every five years at the Japan Marine United (JMU) shipyard in Yokohama starting in March 2020. The modification of the Izumo is a two-stage process, and in the first stage of the modification, the yellow lines necessary for launching F-35Bs were drawn on the flight deck from the stern to the bow, and it is thought that heat resistance coating was also applied.

The Ministry of Defense (MOD) has earmarked 3.1 billion yen (about $28 million) in its FY2020 defense budget to modify the Izumo. The second phase of modification is scheduled for the end of FY2024, when the next scheduled maintenance will take place, and additional modification costs will be included in the defense budget at that time. In this second modification, the bow shape of the Izumo will be changed from the current trapezoidal shape to a rectangular shape to make it easier to operate the F-35B, and other changes to the ship’s interior compartments are also planned.

Also, Izumo‘s sister ship, Kaga, will undergo a similar modification. The modification of Kaga is scheduled for the end of FY2021, and according to a local Japanese newspaper, the Chugoku Shimbun, it will take 14 months. In addition, the majority of the two-stage modifications for the Izumo will be implemented in a single modification for the Kaga, and the bow shape change will also be implemented in this modification. Therefore, MOD, in its FY2021 defense budget. 20.3 billion yen ($180 million) has been allocated for the modification of the Kaga. However, according to Kosuke Takahashi, Jane’s Defence Weekly’s Tokyo correspondent, the modifications to Kaga‘s internal compartments will be carried out in conjunction with the large-scale maintenance of FY2026, and if the work proceeds smoothly, Izumo will finish its modifications to operate the F-35B before Kaga....

...However, full-scale operation of the F-35B in the JASDF will not begin for several more years after deployment [c.2025], and the F-35B will not be operated in the Izumo class until then. Therefore, it is expected that the U.S. Marine Corps’ F-35Bs will first be used for operational training on the modified Izumo, where the JMSDF will learn the operational know-how of the F-35Bs, and eventually the JASDF’s F-35Bs will be used for landing and taking off."

Photo: "JS Izumo's flight deck showing new markings on the flight deck. These are linked to the future operation of F-35B. Picture by Japanese ship spotter @Alsace_class" https://www.navalnews.com/wp-content/up ... ghters.jpg


Source: https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... -fighters/
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Unread post21 Jul 2021, 01:55

These are some very large ships. Hardly pocket carriers at this point.
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Unread post21 Jul 2021, 02:03

Man the idea of Japanese carriers again...

Saw the name Kaga and it's just crazy lol.

Doubt many in Japan ever thought the Kaga would be a thing again.
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Unread post21 Jul 2021, 02:11

madrat wrote:These are some very large ships. Hardly pocket carriers at this point.


What F-35B carrier is a pocket carrier, then? These Japanese ships have less tonnage than the Italian Cavour.

While technically possible to build a 10-15000 ton carrier, the consensus around here seems to be why? Why would one build such a small ship? Might as well build something 25,000 - 35,000 tons and carry twenty or so Lightnings.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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Unread post21 Jul 2021, 02:22

sunstersun wrote:Man the idea of Japanese carriers again...

Saw the name Kaga and it's just crazy lol.

Doubt many in Japan ever thought the Kaga would be a thing again.


Given that China is threatening to use nukes first on Japan, I hope they build at least ten of them. Or more -- they are smaller. The loss of Clark AFB in the Philippines hurts. Unless Vietnam invites the US back to Da Nang or something, the only tactical options to contain China when the shooting starts are carriers and land bases. Taiwan is most likely off the table until the bullets start flying, and then there probably is no time left to move a wing or two of F-35's to Formosa. Most of the Ryukyu islands look like they have an airstrip large enough from which one could operate a squadron of Lightnings, but even then Kadena AFB is probably it. If China makes a play for Taiwan, I could see South Korea deciding it is better for them to sit it out. I hope I am wrong, but the ROK doesn't give me warm fuzzies.

F-35A's out of Clark AFB, Chiayi AB on Taiwan, and Kadena AFB could put some serious hurt across China. But not enough F-35's at this point, and not enough bases.

Japan needs to reconstitute its carrier fleet.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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Unread post21 Jul 2021, 03:33

steve2267 wrote:
sunstersun wrote:Man the idea of Japanese carriers again...

Saw the name Kaga and it's just crazy lol.

Doubt many in Japan ever thought the Kaga would be a thing again.


Given that China is threatening to use nukes first on Japan, I hope they build at least ten of them. Or more -- they are smaller. The loss of Clark AFB in the Philippines hurts. Unless Vietnam invites the US back to Da Nang or something, the only tactical options to contain China when the shooting starts are carriers and land bases. Taiwan is most likely off the table until the bullets start flying, and then there probably is no time left to move a wing or two of F-35's to Formosa. Most of the Ryukyu islands look like they have an airstrip large enough from which one could operate a squadron of Lightnings, but even then Kadena AFB is probably it. If China makes a play for Taiwan, I could see South Korea deciding it is better for them to sit it out. I hope I am wrong, but the ROK doesn't give me warm fuzzies.

F-35A's out of Clark AFB, Chiayi AB on Taiwan, and Kadena AFB could put some serious hurt across China. But not enough F-35's at this point, and not enough bases.

Japan needs to reconstitute its carrier fleet.


The US and her Allies practice moving into and operating from Commercial and Small Austere Airfields on a regular basis. So, honestly doesn't bother me that they don't have to many forward airfields. Which, would be very vulnerable during the early stages of any conflict to begin with.

So, better to move them in and around the battlefield as condition dictate....


As for any future Japanese Carrier Fleet. I don't see anything larger than the Izumo/Kaga before 2040.

That said, what Japan "could" do to exploit the striking power of the existing Izumo Class. Is they could operate both in pairs with the smaller Hyūga and Ise. These could carry just Helicopters and maybe Ospreys. While, leaving the aforementioned to just carry F-35B's! This would give them the striking power of a much larger Aircraft Carrier. Plus, the option to send their aircraft to the other carrier. If, one was damaged.......
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Unread post21 Jul 2021, 05:08

How Japan chose where to base its F-35s
By: Mike Yeo   9 hours ago


MELBOURNE, Australia – Japan’s defense minister has confirmed that the U.S. ally will base its Lockheed-Martin F-35B Lightning II Short Take off and Vertical Landing or STOVL fighter jets at the southernmost of Japan’s four main islands.

Nobuo Kishi, the Japanese minister of defense, said July 16 that the Japan Air Self-Defense Force or JASDF base of Nyutabaru on the east coast of the island of Kyushu was “the best fit” to deploy the stealthy fifth-generation fighter. The base is currently home to an operational and a training squadron of JASDF Mitsubishi F-15J/DJ Eagle interceptors, and is the southernmost JASDF combat base on Japan’s main islands.

He also revealed that the deployment of the F-35B to Nyutabaru will begin in the 2025 fiscal year with six aircraft. An additional two aircraft will arrive in the following year. Japan’s fiscal year runs from the 1st of April to the 30th of March of the following year.

Japan has plans to acquire 42 F-35Bs and a total of 157 F-35s. The remaining aircraft are expected to be the Conventional Take Off and Landing or CTOL F-35A variant. The JASDF is already in the process of standing up its second F-35A squadron at Misawa in northern Japan.

Japan’s defense ministry has already briefed local officials about the planned basing of the F-35B. Kishi noted that support from the local community was vital to its plans, with opposition from local residents already delaying or thwarting the deployment plans of several systems in recent years, including the basing of the country’s Bell-Boeing MV-22B Osprey tiltrotor aircraft.

Basing the F-35B at the east coast of Kyushu would be ideal for detachments to join up with Japan’s Izumo-class helicopter-destroyers as they deploy from the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force bases at Kure and Yokosuka. Japan is converting the Izumo and sister ship Kaga to operate the F-35B.

The first stage of work to convert the Izumo has already been completed, with the ship emerging from an availability period in June with newly painted lines on its flight deck for fixed-wing air operations. It is also believed a heat resistant coating has been applied to the flight deck to cope with temperatures from the F-35B’s exhaust.

The next stage of the conversion will include rebuilding the front of the flight deck from a trapezoidal to a rectangular shape, along with changes to the ship’s internal spaces to accommodate F-35B operations. These changes will likely create an increase in aviation fuel capacity onboard and provision for armored magazines to store air launched weapons.


The modifications to the Izumo are scheduled to be completed in the 2024 fiscal year. Japan’s Chugoku Shimbun has reported that the resurfacing and reshaping of the Kaga’s flight deck will start later this fiscal year, although the modifications to the second ship’s internal spaces will only take place later.

https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia ... its-f-35s/
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Unread post28 Jul 2021, 20:16

Japan will start modernization of JS Kaga from end of the year
28 Jul 2021 alert5

"The Yomiuri reports that Japan will send JS Kaga back to the dock for modernization works to prepare the warship to operate the F-35B.

Meanwhile, the defense ministry is considering plans to have USMC F-35Bs operate from Kaga’s sister ship Izumo to test out the modifications that were done to allow the helicopter destroyer to operate the F-35B."

Source: http://alert5.com/2021/07/28/japan-will ... more-90001
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Unread post02 Aug 2021, 02:21

Similar report about USMC F-35Bs aboard IZUMO (makes sense even if just for testing then demonstrating operations etc.).
Marine Corps F-35s Could Operate From Japanese Carriers
29 Jul 29 2021 AvWeak

"SINGAPORE—Tokyo is reportedly considering inviting the U.S. Marine Corps (USMC) to fly its Lockheed Martin F-35Bs from its newly converted aircraft carrier. The idea, which was first raised two years ago, has been brought up again after JS Izumo of the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force emerged from... [no nonSubSUBscriber]

Source: https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/ ... e-carriers
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