6 RAAF Supers to Growlers (Fewer F-35s?)

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popcorn

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Unread post03 May 2013, 13:18

APA believes that the F-35 and SH are nothing but meat and gravy for the latest Russian and Chinese designs so they knew they were going to be pissed off whichever way the decision went.. and yet they persist..gluttons for punishment? :D
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Unread post03 May 2013, 15:08

neurotech wrote:Another little detail, each APG-81 AESA element is capable of less than 5W transmit peak power, and there is only 1200 modules in the whole array, so its not really a "software" limit on the baseline jet.
Apples and Oranges

The horn transmitters on the ALQ-99 have a much larger arch than the APG-81 which means that the amount of jamming energy per square meter of targeted areas should be more than the ALQ-99.
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Unread post03 May 2013, 16:58

popcorn wrote:So this should put the RAAF in a position to retire the 24SHs at the appropriate time, retain the 12 Growlers and derive maximum benefit from operating and sustaining a single leading-edge 5G fighter platform that will be fully interoperable with those of it's friends and allies.. nice.


Why retire almost brand new jets? They won't. The Supers will be flying into the 2030s like their USN counterparts, with some converted to Growlers. The stated intent is to purchase 100 F-35s, just like the US intends to buy 2,400+. Whether that will happen depends on acquisition and sustainment costs down the road. Hit the ~FY12$75M URF and CPFH ~FY12$23K numbers, then it has a good chance. In any event, it will be a mixed fleet.
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Unread post03 May 2013, 23:09

maus92 wrote:
popcorn wrote:So this should put the RAAF in a position to retire the 24SHs at the appropriate time, retain the 12 Growlers and derive maximum benefit from operating and sustaining a single leading-edge 5G fighter platform that will be fully interoperable with those of it's friends and allies.. nice.


Why retire almost brand new jets? They won't. The Supers will be flying into the 2030s like their USN counterparts, with some converted to Growlers. The stated intent is to purchase 100 F-35s, just like the US intends to buy 2,400+. Whether that will happen depends on acquisition and sustainment costs down the road. Hit the ~FY12$75M URF and CPFH ~FY12$23K numbers, then it has a good chance. In any event, it will be a mixed fleet.


Who says they should retire brand new jets? Note the "appropriate time" in my post retire them,when it makes sense to do so.
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Unread post03 May 2013, 23:09

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Last edited by popcorn on 04 May 2013, 22:29, edited 2 times in total.
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Unread post04 May 2013, 14:37

popcorn wrote:
maus92 wrote:
popcorn wrote:So this should put the RAAF in a position to retire the 24SHs at the appropriate time, retain the 12 Growlers and derive maximum benefit from operating and sustaining a single leading-edge 5G fighter platform that will be fully interoperable with those of it's friends and allies.. nice.


Why retire almost brand new jets? They won't. The Supers will be flying into the 2030s like their USN counterparts, with some converted to Growlers. The stated intent is to purchase 100 F-35s, just like the US intends to buy 2,400+. Whether that will happen depends on acquisition and sustainment costs down the road. Hit the ~FY12$75M URF and CPFH ~FY12$23K numbers, then it has a good chance. In any event, it will be a mixed fleet.


Who says they should retire brand new jets? Note the "appropriate time" in my post retire them,when it makes sense to do so.


Glad you agree that the "appropriate time" is when the airframes time out in the 2030s.
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Unread post04 May 2013, 14:41

Some clarification about the conversion of existing -Fs to Growlers. The RAAF will retain the original 24 Super Hornets as F/A-18Fs:

"The government announced last year that its air force will equip 12 of Australia’s F/A-18 Super Hornet jet fighters with Growler radar-jamming equipment and other gear.

But the reviewed defense strategy released Friday said the government now plans to buy 12 new Growlers and to keep Australia’s existing 24 Super Hornets as they are. Australia will be the only country other than the United States to operate Growlers, which are to be replaced eventually by F-35s.

“We’ve made decisions to protect our own air combat capability with the previous acquisitions of Super Hornets and now additional Growlers,” Defense Minister Stephen Smith told reporters.

“It is quite clearly the case on our one analysis but also on U.S. analysis that the joint strike fighter project … has improved, but there are still risks associated with that and we’re not prepared to … take the risk of a gap in our air combat capability or superiority,” he added."

Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/05/03 ... rylink=cpy
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Unread post04 May 2013, 15:02

I like the way some Americans are condescending. However it was made clear from the get go but I guess some dumb Yanks have trouble with English.... :D

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopi ... rt-15.html

Australian Defence Force to get new jets, patrol boats 03 May 2013 Lanai Scarr [SCROLL DOWN]

" AUSTRALIA will purchase 12 new electronic warfare fighter planes to cover the delays in the Joint Strike Fighter project, Julia Gillard has announced....

http://www.news.com.au/national-news/fe ... 6634494277
_______________________

Scroll to the end of the same page on this forum to find this gem straight from the DEFmin... [ http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopi ... rt-15.html ]

TRANSCRIPT: SPEECH AT THE LAUNCH OF THE 2013 DEFENCE WHITE PAPER TRANSCRIPTION: PROOF COPY E & OE DATE: 3 May 2013
"STEPHEN SMITH: [DefMin]...the Government today announces that it will purchase 12 new Growler aircraft....

...This will give us a mixed fleet of 12 Growlers, 24 Super Hornets, and over time into the 2030s, 72 Joint Strike Fighters. In the 2030s, the Government of the day will be able to make a decision whether the 24 Super Hornets can be replaced by Joint Strike Fighters. But in the end, we have always said that to maintain our air combat capability and superiority, we need to draw from a fleet of about 100. That remains the case...."

http://www.noodls.com/viewNoodl/1847242 ... of-the-201
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count_to_10

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Unread post04 May 2013, 15:20

Are the growlers being fitted with CFTs?
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Unread post04 May 2013, 18:48

[quote="spazsinbad"]I like the way some Americans are condescending. However it was made clear from the get go but I guess some dumb Yanks have trouble with English.... :D....

...are we (again) being divided by a common language, Oscar Wilde?? :lol: :cheers:
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Unread post04 May 2013, 20:31

[quote="spazsinbad"]... purchase 12 new Growler aircraft.......This will give us a mixed fleet of 12 Growlers, 24 Super Hornets, .....quote]

Spaz,

Has there been any speculation on initial service of the future Aussie Growlers?? This later purchase of 12 Growlers will "set back" my hoped for initial service date.

I have speculated that the data acquisition and tactics provided by the Aussie Growlers would be a best preparation for the F-35 EA/EW suites.

I am recollecting recent USN Growlers in Oz on joint service activities.

Possible updates; Conformal Fuel Tanks??, InfraRed Search and Track system, Type IV Advanced Mission Computer; any others?

:)
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Unread post04 May 2013, 20:35

spazsinbad wrote:I like the way some Americans are condescending. However it was made clear from the get go but I guess some dumb Yanks have trouble with English.... :D

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopi ... rt-15.html

Australian Defence Force to get new jets, patrol boats 03 May 2013 Lanai Scarr [SCROLL DOWN]

" AUSTRALIA will purchase 12 new electronic warfare fighter planes to cover the delays in the Joint Strike Fighter project, Julia Gillard has announced....

http://www.news.com.au/national-news/fe ... 6634494277


Hey, some of us south of the Mason-Dixon line take offense at being called Yankees

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Unread post04 May 2013, 20:51

neptune wrote:
spazsinbad wrote:... purchase 12 new Growler aircraft.......This will give us a mixed fleet of 12 Growlers, 24 Super Hornets, .....quote]

Spaz,

Has there been any speculation on initial service of the future Aussie Growlers?? This later purchase of 12 Growlers will "set back" my hoped for initial service date.

I have speculated that the data acquisition and tactics provided by the Aussie Growlers would be a best preparation for the F-35 EA/EW suites.

I am recollecting recent USN Growlers in Oz on joint service activities.
Advanced Mission Computer; any others?

:)


I understand some crew training has already commenced. Given the similarities in systems (excepting of course the EW key bits), I would assume that introduction to service could be relatively quick. Maybe less then 5yrs.
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Unread post04 May 2013, 21:38

'neptune' asked: "...Has there been any speculation on initial service of the future Aussie Growlers??..."

Top-secret Growler warplane bound for RAAF 03 May 2013 Max Blenkin
"...Officially named the Boeing EA-18G Growler, this very advanced variant of the Super Hornet should be gracing the flight line at RAAF bases by the end of the decade...."

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/breakin ... public_rss
OR
Go here for the rest: http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopi ... rt-30.html [page top]
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Unread post04 May 2013, 22:22

maus92 wrote:
popcorn wrote:
maus92 wrote:
popcorn wrote:So this should put the RAAF in a position to retire the 24SHs at the appropriate time, retain the 12 Growlers and derive maximum benefit from operating and sustaining a single leading-edge 5G fighter platform that will be fully interoperable with those of it's friends and allies.. nice.


Why retire almost brand new jets? They won't. The Supers will be flying into the 2030s like their USN counterparts, with some converted to Growlers. The stated intent is to purchase 100 F-35s, just like the US intends to buy 2,400+. Whether that will happen depends on acquisition and sustainment costs down the road. Hit the ~FY12$75M URF and CPFH ~FY12$23K numbers, then it has a good chance. In any event, it will be a mixed fleet.


Who says they should retire brand new jets? Note the "appropriate time" in my post retire them,when it makes sense to do so.


Glad you agree that the "appropriate time" is when the airframes time out in the 2030s.


I'm glad the powers that be did the smart thing and are investing the bulk of the money in a platform that will remain relevant and viable for decades longer, one that has a growth path into the future. Maybe there's hope for politicians after all.
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