Unrestricted Climb

Operating an F-16 on the ground or in the air - from the engine start sequence, over replacing a wing, to aerial refueling procedures
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navav2002

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Unread post04 Jun 2005, 15:52

Several years ago when Dobbins AFB (now ARB) housed F-15's they use to do the Coolest touch and go's!!! I would equate it to what you all are calling a un-restricted climb...At the time I worked a couple of miles north of the base and my office window faced the runway...It was almost like I got to watch an airshow everyday... :D ...You would see them come in really haulin' a** into the break...then if they were gonna stay in the pattern doing touch and go's...you'd see them pop up from the tree line (I couldn't see the runway) pulling to vertical...then do a quarter roll...then a pull to inverted...then they would roll upright into a turn back into the pattern...Awesome!!!

Now these Days..I'm working on the base...And just the last few months were getting to see the Raptor pilots do Max Performance Take-off's...It's Sweet!!...The F-15's have been gone from here for several years...So it was a lot less exciting...but now it's spicing up a bit with the Raptor showing us a little "Stuff"!!!...

The Raptor always has a chase plane for flights around here...So there is always an F-16 hangin' out...I'm sure you all are familiar with the really cool looking turn guys do in the F-16....I have heard it called "The Falcon Turn"...but recently I was told that wasn't correct and must have been a nickname someone gave it....Anyhow...Let's say the F-16 is scooting down the runway after a touch and go...he will start a pull stright up...then at approx. 45-60deg nose up he will smartly roll about 45deg while still pitching up...resulting in a really sweet looking climbing pitchout type of thing...I think the Thunderbird Solos use it allot...I have seen it in some video tapes I have of the TBirds...I was wondering if any of you guys new if there was a "name" for that maneuver...

Thanks...Take care
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TC

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Unread post06 Jun 2005, 06:41

What you described the F-15s is a 'Closed Pattern Approach'. The maneuver you described the 16s doing also sounds like a 'Closed'. I guess I'd have to see in person to really visualize what you mean.

I work on a Raptor base, and it's great to see them do a two-ship max climb! :wink:

Beers and MiGs were made to be pounded!
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navav2002

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Unread post06 Jun 2005, 16:14

TC wrote:I work on a Raptor base, and it's great to see them do a two-ship max climb! :wink:


Awwww...now that would be SWEET !!!...See you guys got it made in that area...You get to see some cool flyin'...

They keep the reigns on them pretty tight around here...It has only been a couple of month's that we have even got to see the max climb...Heck...They had Banned the Blue Angles and T'Birds from performing here at all since the late 80's...Until 2003...The Blues did a show in 2003 but it was a restricted version...toned down a tad to much if you ask me...But it was still great to see them locally...

Are you at TY??
Last edited by navav2002 on 07 Jun 2005, 06:59, edited 1 time in total.
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TC

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Unread post07 Jun 2005, 05:15

navav2002 wrote:Are you at TY??


Roger that. I'm a civvie on the base. Was the reason the Blues and the 'Birds restricted, because of ATL Int'l traffic conflicts?

BTW, I remember when I used to see the 16th TFW guys fly their Eagles quite a bit. Sux they traded in a great ride for a bus in the sky (JSTARS).

It was slightly ok when they traded their Eagles in for BONEs, but the BONE to the JSTARS?!...Someone should've been beaten severely for that one.

Beers, MiGs, and whomever makes decisions like that were made to be pounded!
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navav2002

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Unread post07 Jun 2005, 06:39

TC wrote:1) Was the reason the Blues and the 'Birds restricted, because of ATL Int'l traffic conflicts?

2) It was slightly ok when they traded their Eagles in for BONEs, but the BONE to the JSTARS?!...Someone should've been beaten severely for that one.

3) Beers, MiGs, and whomever makes decisions like that were made to be pounded!


1) I'm not sure that was it...That may have been an excuse...But they have had airshow waivers for single jet demo's during the "Ban"...They could scoot that traffic out 20-30miles for a couple of hours pretty easy I think...Maybe I'm wrong about that...but it seems to me if you have a waiver for 1 or 2 jets...what's the difference?

I have heard it had to do with the population in the local area??? Doesn't make sense to me...seems like those guys perform in allot of densely populated areas...I can't imagine how the decision makers would view the Blue's or T'Birds anything other than the best of the best?

I'm just glad they decided to lift the ban...now if only they would lift the restrictions... :D ...

2) From what little I know of the B-1's mission...I would think that would be a pretty decent deal if your an adrenalin junky... :thumb: ...so your right...stepping out of an F-15 to that would be OK !!!

3) I Agree...
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shiz302

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Unread post14 Jun 2005, 09:48

All I know is when the F-16's would level out after the climb I couldn't hardly see them anymore. :)
Ex 16 CC workin 'hawks.
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allenperos

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Unread post14 Jun 2005, 12:12

Ran into an Aerodynamics problem in my homework book that perhaps some of you may be interested in as far as an emergency procedure regarding decompressurization in the front office of a popular jet fighter.

The problem states: From Sea Level to FL 250, a fighter climbs @ a mean 500'/s. What is the pressure lapse rate? Without giving out some sensitive info, I deduced a cabin decompression of 26.6 psf/s. At this rate, you will experience decompression sickness if the cabin pressurization system does not function. Checklists call for verification of pressure to stabilize at FL080. (An engineering expression meaning the same thing as pressure altitude, in this case 29.92").

If this mission was an interception, perhaps you may run the risk of dying some time within a few hours after landing. If it was an FCF, it could and should be aborted. Any comments or questions?
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falconfixer860261

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Unread post14 Jun 2005, 22:26

allenperos wrote:Ran into an Aerodynamics problem in my homework book that perhaps some of you may be interested in as far as an emergency procedure regarding decompressurization in the front office of a popular jet fighter.

The problem states: From Sea Level to FL 250, a fighter climbs @ a mean 500'/s. What is the pressure lapse rate? Without giving out some sensitive info, I deduced a cabin decompression of 26.6 psf/s. At this rate, you will experience decompression sickness if the cabin pressurization system does not function. Checklists call for verification of pressure to stabilize at FL080. (An engineering expression meaning the same thing as pressure altitude, in this case 29.92").

If this mission was an interception, perhaps you may run the risk of dying some time within a few hours after landing. If it was an FCF, it could and should be aborted. Any comments or questions?


It is a real possibility. It is more likely to happen from a rapid decompression at altitude. Flight attendants don't tell you about the possibility of getting DCS if there is a rapid loss of cabin pressure. Oxygen prebreathing helps reduce the possibilty/severity. Of course you have to prebreath for 30 mins prior to the event so that would not help on a Zulu intercept scramble. It would help though if you had been inflight for 30 mins prior to losing pressure. Most crew I know don't like being on 100% though - dries them out too much. Don't know what procedures are for dedicated interceptor units but when we sit alert the crew do not prebreath. I'm pretty sure the U-2 and SR-71 folks do/did though.
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Unread post14 Jun 2005, 23:05

Salute!

Cylon and Standby Gains have it nailed. Rest of you are guessing, heh heh.

Usually, the 'unrestricted climb' is issued by the local air traffic control agency. They may or may not have 'control' of all of the air above your departure point. Hence, they may have to get clearance from the area ATC so's you don't zoom up near an airliner at 20K.

The clearance basically means that you can zoom up to your cruise alt or whatever they tell you without worrying about other planes.

So if you want to go to 20K using the burner, then they let you zoom up in about a minute and a half from brake release.

Techniques vary. I have seen folks stand on the tail once the gear is up and climb at a 30-40 deg angle. I have seen folks do the "zoom departure", which is hold the sucker level and at end of runway climb at 60 deg or higher until 20K.

In any case, rolling inverted at the top is a good thing. Same for being easy on the gees when pulling up. Had a maintenance honcho with me that wanted a zoom departure for the troops. He had a few hours of stick time, so I let him try it. Not good. We almost ripped off the travel pod, then he didn't roll inverted soon enough from busting our 22K altitude restriction. So I 'helped a little' (neat thing that he couldn't feel my stick inputs due to the FLCS setup).

later,
Gums
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EriktheF16462

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Unread post14 Jun 2005, 23:27

Gums,
Here at Shaw quick climbs are issued by Oakgrove and above 15k they go to Jax. Is that standard throughout the country? More than one controlling agency based on MSL. I don't the local ATC controls much outside of the pattern and the tower keeps you guys from running into each other while rolling on the ground. I hope I have the right idea of the process. Yes I am guessing though a little bit of it is educated.
F16 462 AD USAF. Crew dog for 3 and Even a pointy head for a few months.
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Unread post23 Jun 2005, 21:07

I had the privilege of experiencing and filming (well filming and not trying to drop the camery behind me) myself in a Viking take-off at Mountain Home AFB with the 391st F-15Es, and I must say, it may be one of the sexiest things I've ever done. I hope that after UPT I get to do several of them. It is by far the most exciting thing I'll do with my clothes on!!!
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allenperos

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Unread post23 Jun 2005, 21:38

Some posts recommended pre-breathing, I did this for two high altitude parachute freefalls, one from a King Air @ FL290 and a hot-air balloon burning JP-8 from FL 395. I had to pre-breath for an hour for both.

Talk about having fun with your clothes on, and I mean I had lots of clothes on, on both jumps I reached a terminal velocity of 245 mph and 290 mph, respecively.

Don't ask me how much $$$$$ I invested in these stupid things about 10 years ago, will post a pic on a practice jump someday soon.
F-16B, CC 80-0623 ERAU ROTC
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adamgh81

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Unread post19 Aug 2005, 22:55

10,000 foot climb for incentive flights also...wish they'd give them to CC's who work on the damn things.
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shiz302

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Unread post20 Aug 2005, 00:30

Are incentive rides just as hard to come by in the guard too?
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adamgh81

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Unread post21 Aug 2005, 01:53

HAHA, Shiz...rides are hard to come by for maint. GUYS...sorry to the ladies, but I see more ladies get rides than anything.
I was told I was getting one after I was Airman of the Year for my Wing...that was in 2003. Now I've put on Staff and havn't heard anything about it.
I don't mind strapping in a guy/gal who's retiring or has recieved an award or something....anyway thumbs up to those who have had a ride
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