F-16 AIM-7 Capability

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viperzerof-2

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Unread post10 Jul 2022, 18:31

I’m not sure if it’s true but I recall hearing Egyptian block 32 had Aim-7 capabilities fairly early. Finding info on them seems hard though.
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viperzerof-2

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Unread post10 Jul 2022, 19:04

http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_fighters/f16_18.html
Under Peace Vector II, Egypt ordered 40 F-16C/Ds (34 Cs and six Ds) with AIM-7 Sparrow capability. These were Block 32 machines, and were one of the few examples of F-16C/Ds being built that were compatible with the AIM-7 Sparrow. First F-16C/D deliveries were in October of 1986, the 242nd Regiment at Beni Suef being the first to be equipped with the type.


https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/egypt-22 ... es.672477/
Peace Vector II
One year later, Egypt ordered 40 additional F-16C/D's (34 C's and six D's) with AIM-7 Sparrow capability. These were block 32 machines, and were some of the few examples of F-16C/D's being built that were compatible with the AIM-7 Sparrow. In October of 1986, the first F-16C arrived in Egypt under Peace Vector II. The 242nd Regiment at Beni Suef began operating F-16C/D's in October 1986. By 1997, all block 32 aircraft were modified to Block 42's (see 'Modifications').

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA243943.pdf

PVIII aircraft differed from PVII aircraft in that they were Block 40 F-16s as compared to Block
25 F-16s and that they were powered by General Electric's FIIO-GE-100 engines instead of the Pratt and Whitney PW-220 engines (see system description for additional details). In addition to PVII unique capabilities, PVIII aircraft carry buried structural provisions for Dorsal fairing and have AIM-7 capability using Egyptian developed Pulse Doppler Illumination (PDILL).


http://www.airvectors.net/avf16_3.html
40 Block 32 F-16C/Ds, including 34 F-16Cs and 6 F-16Ds capable of carrying the AIM-7 Sparrow, with initial deliveries in 1984.
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basher54321

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Unread post10 Jul 2022, 19:46

viperzerof-2 wrote:I’m not sure if it’s true but I recall hearing Egyptian block 32 had Aim-7 capabilities fairly early. Finding info on them seems hard though.




Yeah - Its all old stuff - Egypt is actually mentioned on the very first post in this thread.

Technically the APG-68 supported the PD wave for the Sparrow natively from 1984 or when ever it was delivered however if Sparrow wasn't fully flight tested and certified until 1989 and Lockheed didn't deliver the capability till 1992 did Egypt really get that capability that early?

Egypts Block 40s delivered from 1991 have been seen with Sparrow but am yet to see any evidence it was ever on their Block 32s - difficult to know if sources were making assumptions based on advertised radar capability about what they actually got but feel free to provide something.
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edpop

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Unread post18 Jul 2022, 06:17

Nice shot of Taiwan F-16B with Sparrows and more............
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Taiwan F-16B with Sparrows.jpg
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Unread post18 Jul 2022, 13:02

Japan's AAM-4 is a Sparrow offshoot. Does that count?

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viperzerof-2

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Unread post27 Jul 2022, 04:57

madrat wrote:Japan's AAM-4 is a Sparrow offshoot. Does that count?

Image

I was actually about to ask a question about that!

The F-2 before it’s radar upgrade apparently could fire AIM-7f and AIM-7m but it treated every missile like AIM-7F, I guess that means it doesn’t take advantage of inverse monopulse? Did F-16ADF and F-16C properly take advantage of the AIM-7M/P?
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basher54321

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Unread post27 Jul 2022, 20:47

viperzerof-2 wrote:The F-2 before it’s radar upgrade apparently could fire AIM-7f and AIM-7m but it treated every missile like AIM-7F, I guess that means it doesn’t take advantage of inverse monopulse? Did F-16ADF and F-16C properly take advantage of the AIM-7M/P?




Pass on the Japanese radar - many AIM-7F were supposedly upgraded with the Ms monopulse seeker in the 1980s anyway so not sure there was much of a difference.


Back in the day it looks like the ADF radar (APG-66) could guide AIM-7F and M only using "Continuous Wave Illumination" which is kind of an older method that F-4 radars used.

Probably Hughes in the 1970s for the F-15 came up with another way to guide Sparrow using high PRF "Pulse Doppler Illumination" and this is what the APG-68 uses on F-16Cs. Only advantage I have seen mentioned was that being native to the radar you could ditch the separate CWI transmitter.

The 1970s AIM-7F looks like it could support both CWI and PDI anyway.
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viperzerof-2

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Unread post27 Jul 2022, 21:35

Yea mind you this is early on 2001/2002ish I don’t know if it was a permanent thing.

I thought AIM-7M was incompatible with CW. That’s not the case it seems?

Is the Aim-7f upgrade the Aim-7n? I’ve been trying to find out what the story behind that missile for a while.
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basher54321

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Unread post27 Jul 2022, 22:26

Always possible General Dynamics got the manual wrong - but bit of a bugger bringing something into service in 1989 that only supported the F :D

Not enough info to say - written like they had already just reworked existing AIM-7Fs.
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Unread post27 Jul 2022, 22:45

I took this in one of the ops hangars back in 1992. Sorry for only a partial of the Sparrow. I did have a photo of the entire missile, but I can't seem to find it. And it was 30yrs ago. :shock:

Aim-7.jpeg
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Unread post28 Jul 2022, 05:14

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viperzerof-2

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Unread post02 Aug 2022, 15:38

Was their any thought about using the ADF in the Gulf War? The two ANG squadrons sent where both block 10. Given that the Viper needed escort because it lacked AMRAAM I was curious. Apparently Italian ADF where used this way in Libya.
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Unread post02 Aug 2022, 20:24

Not sure but doesn't seem very likely considering the number of experienced F-15C squadrons available.

You could take it some of them might have been ready in 1990 https://www.f-16.net/units_article20.html - though not for certain and maybe not at the same level as the F-15C pilots.

Were they needed? probably not - was the USAF going to let F-16s get A-A glory over the F-15s - ha.


USAF F-16s were used like B-17s in the first few days until that plan came in contact with the enemy - carrying Sparrows on 3/7 pretty much means no A-G ordnance over range without doing a lot of AAR.

Nearly all AG but according to GWAPS they replaced F-15s on CAPs the day before DS began to give the F-15s some downtime - other than there were two MiG encounters but both involved the MiGs turning away from what I recall.



Bahrain flew 152 DCA sorties (plus 14 OCA sorties) but am yet to find any evidence they had AIM-7 during DS - their FMS order for Sparrow was supposedly delivered between 1991 - 1992 so maybe not stood up till 92 at a guess.


The squadron is equipped with the AIM-7M Sparrow radar guided missile which it received after Desert Storm.

https://www.f-16.net/units_article286.html
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viperzerof-2

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Unread post02 Aug 2022, 21:00

Thank you!

On the subject of Bahrain. It seems the Block 40 can carry the sparrow natively (feature of apg-68(v)1 if you had the hard points (fitting the 1989 qualification and why no block 25/30/32 seem to have sparrow). Bahrain’s jets where off the assembly line when Iraq invaded

Aim-7f was sold to the country by 1988



https://books.google.com/books?id=cgEEr ... ge&q=aim-7 bahrain&f=false


https://books.google.com/books?id=VyFQA ... AUQAw#f-16 aim-7 bahrain


they wanted Aim-7 from the start

They definitely did use Aim-7 at some point it’s just pinning down when



https://www.dstorm.eu/pages/en/bahrain/f-16.html

If any F-16 carried sparrow in the gulf war it’s these.
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Unread post02 Aug 2022, 21:42

A photo or video from a good source (where you can prove the date) of RBAF operations during Desert Storm is probably what is required - barring an ex English speaking RBAF member passes by.

The arms sales list to Bahrain (via sipri) only has one FMS sale in the 80s of Sparrow and shows the order was placed in 1987 (same year as the F-16Cs were ordered) but was not delivered until 1991 to 1992.


I don't think they had it on any CDs then - but as ever -

Lock 1993.JPG
Lockheed 1993
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