Naval DDG X unveiled

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jessmo112

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Unread post13 Jan 2022, 23:56

220113_sna_ddgx_slide-2.png
https://breakingdefense.com/2022/01/navy-unveils-latest-concept-for-future-destroyer-ddgx/

Can someone explain? I don't speak navy.

Also mods can we get a naval sub forum?
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jessmo112

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Unread post14 Jan 2022, 00:43

What's 2X svtt?
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weasel1962

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Unread post14 Jan 2022, 03:15

Svtt = surface vessel torpedo tubes.
att = anti-torpedo torpedo

Most comments are on number of vls.

CRS report on DDG(X)
https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF11679
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hornetfinn

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Unread post14 Jan 2022, 10:09

That "Destroyer Payload Module" option sounds interesting. I bet there will be different kinds of modules for different tasks. Like regular Mk41 VLS module, Large Missile Launcher module, possibly lengthened variants of those two also.

600kW laser would be pretty powerful... :shock: It would also require pretty impressive heat dissipation system as those things generate a lot of heat.

According to this: https://sgp.fas.org/crs/weapons/R41526.pdf

such a laser weapon could allow pretty good performance against anti-ship missiles and other similar targets.

Table A-1 in Appendix A summarizes some government and industry perspectives regarding power levels needed to counter certain targets. Although these perspectives differ somewhat, the following conclusions might be drawn from the table regarding approximate laser power levels needed to affect certain targets:

• Lasers with a power level of about 10 kW might be able to counter some UAVs at short range, particularly “soft” UAVs (i.e., those with design features that make them particularly susceptible to laser damage).

• Lasers with power levels in the tens of kilowatts could have more capability for countering UAVs, and could counter at least some small boats as well.

• Lasers with a power level of about 100 kW would have a greater ability for countering UAVs and small boats, as well as some capability for countering rockets, artillery, and mortars.

• Lasers with power levels in the hundreds of kilowatts could have greater ability for countering targets mentioned above, and could also counter manned aircraft and some missiles.

• Lasers with power levels in the megawatts could have greater ability for countering targets mentioned above—including supersonic ASCMs and ballistic missiles—at ranges of up to about 10 nautical miles.
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weasel1962

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Unread post14 Jan 2022, 11:55

The laser will be a game changer. The army's 50kw lasers which they are fielding a platoon of 4 this year are claimed to burn holes thru UAS and detonate mortar rounds in seconds. Clearly a 150kw (or 300kw which will also demo this year) will make a handy CRAM addition.

The issue in my understanding is that more powerful lasers doesn't yield a correlated increase in range so its going to be relatively short ranged for the near future even if more powerful.

I note China's LW-30 laser description (but able to cause damage up to 25km)
https://armyrecognition.com/airshow_chi ... ystem.html
The LW-30 system is similar to Poly Technologies' Silent Hunter The SilentHunter offers four power patterns: 5kW, 10kW, 20kW and 30kW, its interception radius ranges from 200m to 4,000m and the target capture radius is more than 4,000m. It is able to intercept targets with the diameter of less than 2m and flying speed of less than 60m/s. The laser is said to be able to pierce five layers of 2-mm-thick steel plates at a distance of 800m, or 5-mm-thick steel plate from 1,000m away.
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zhangmdev

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Unread post14 Jan 2022, 13:14

600kW is unbelievably powerful for a laser. Just for reference, those industrial CNC laser cutters can slice through steel sheet centimeters thick work at about a few kilowatt. Peak power is but one benchmark of laser weapon performance, the more important one is how much energy it can deliver to the target, and actually cause some damage. Considering a number of factors:

How long it can sustain the pulse at that power level.
How much "down time" is needed between each shot.
The ability to track its target. Anybody watched some rocket launch knows tracking a fast flying object kilometers down range though a ground telescope is not an easy task.
What is its wavelength, and much it is degraded by the atmosphere.

By comparison, SM-3 KW imparts about 130 megajoules worth of energy on target.

https://www.seaforces.org/wpnsys/SURFAC ... sile-3.htm

A 600 kw laser should focus on target 216 seconds to deliver such energy, not counting loss through the atmosphere.

So far, anti-missile-laser is still Sci-fi. In the near future, laser is only useful dazzling enemy sensors, deterring IRGC speedboats. It is not as good as CRAM / RAM.
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sferrin

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Unread post14 Jan 2022, 14:27

zhangmdev wrote:600kW is unbelievably powerful for a laser. Just for reference, those industrial CNC laser cutters can slice through steel sheet centimeters thick work at about a few kilowatt. Peak power is but one benchmark of laser weapon performance, the more important one is how much energy it can deliver to the target, and actually cause some damage. Considering a number of factors:

How long it can sustain the pulse at that power level.
How much "down time" is needed between each shot.
The ability to track its target. Anybody watched some rocket launch knows tracking a fast flying object kilometers down range though a ground telescope is not an easy task.
What is its wavelength, and much it is degraded by the atmosphere.

By comparison, SM-3 KW imparts about 130 megajoules worth of energy on target.

https://www.seaforces.org/wpnsys/SURFAC ... sile-3.htm

A 600 kw laser should focus on target 216 seconds to deliver such energy, not counting loss through the atmosphere.

So far, anti-missile-laser is still Sci-fi. In the near future, laser is only useful dazzling enemy sensors, deterring IRGC speedboats. It is not as good as CRAM / RAM.


This might interest you:



That's a Vandal target being shot down there at 2:58. (As big and fast as Brahmos/Yakhont/Oniks)

MQM-8G_Vandal_missile_launch_1999.jpg


600kw might sound like a lot (MIRACL, above, was a megawatt class chemical laser back in the 80s) but it has to deal with atmospheric distortion, clouds, rain, etc. That's why ABL (another megawatt class chemical laser) was mounted in a 747, so it could fly above all that.
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zhangmdev

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Unread post14 Jan 2022, 15:27

Can't access yt right now, so don't know what shot down that Vandal target. MIRACL?

Old-school megawatt chemical laser, like MIRACL, THEL, ABL, uses some exotic chemical reaction involving iodine or fluorine. That alone means those would never be practical weapon systems. Nobody sane would consider handling tons of pure Nitrogen trifluoride on the open sea.
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sferrin

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Unread post14 Jan 2022, 18:48

zhangmdev wrote:Can't access yt right now, so don't know what shot down that Vandal target. MIRACL?

Old-school megawatt chemical laser, like MIRACL, THEL, ABL, uses some exotic chemical reaction involving iodine or fluorine. That alone means those would never be practical weapon systems. Nobody sane would consider handling tons of pure Nitrogen trifluoride on the open sea.



Yep. Which is why they never went anywhere. They did show what was possible however. (And yes, that was MIRACL that shot down the Vandal target.)
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zhangmdev

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Unread post14 Jan 2022, 21:38

At least the tracking system can be repurposed. Also, testing a ground based laser in a high altitude desert, White Sands Missile Range, feels like cheating.

The new generation solid-state laser system has been around for more than a decade, like the Army's High Energy Laser Mobile Demonstrator (HEL MD), which was much hyped around the end of 2000s. Like "firing a 100 kW laser for 4 seconds costs less than 2 cups of diesel". Still it hasn't become operational. What happened?
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sferrin

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Unread post15 Jan 2022, 02:49

zhangmdev wrote:At least the tracking system can be repurposed. Also, testing a ground based laser in a high altitude desert, White Sands Missile Range, feels like cheating.


That's where White Sands is.
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