Forum: Air Force Life

You know, in Belgium no one , not even the tabloids, would even bother.
Reactions here would be like "nice rack, great a$$, long live the Air Force or my personal favourite: hell she can drill me anytime she wants!

Just a cultural difference I guess.

The same when Jannet Jackson showed her nipple some time ago. In the US it seemed to cause a big scandal. In Belgium, and I think I can say “in Europe”, nobody cared about one black tit. We don’t even care if somebody on tv says he’s watching porn all the time.

Guess we’re just a lot more open minded if it comes to sexuality.

We’re all born naked you know. Most men like to see a beautiful woman, and if a pretty woman wants to share her beauty, well, we should be happy with that.

And something else: if you think it’s bad thing for your organisation or company if one of your employees is but naked in a magazine, or anything else for that matter, it’s not smart to make a lot of noise about it. And it doesn’t make her bad in what she does for a living, does it?

A few years ago a female police officer did a photo shoot for a local magazine that can be compared with Playboy. Everybody was really positive about that.

So: it’s really not such a big deal. Get over it.

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You're right Master-of-Disaster, but in Belgium the Army and Air Force don't have a very good image. People don't look at the military guys as if they were examples of courage and honor for the country, that's why people don't really care. (I can tell because I'm in the BAF myself)
I think -not sure- that in the US the military are much more respected and people await a lot from them. So they don't like to associate someone from the military with a thing which is related to perversion. Hence the discussion about our cute friend Michelle. If she had done just model-pictures (even naked) for some other magazine (a fashion magazine) it wouldn't have been a problem.

And she appears to have some really big boobs. Now what on earth can you have against that? Wink

I guess that is the difference in our cultures and up bringing, we see ***** as something (normally) that is private not to be flaunted publicly, but as we can clearly see, that old concept is being kicked aside and I am not sure if it a good thing or bad. I would think there needs to be some guides as how to behave, not sure (I have mixed feeling s on it sometimes) but the world is changing, guys marrying guys and such...I could never agree to that but looking at a beautiful woman's body in private...I'm there.

Europeans do seem to be more open minded about it collectively but that may not make it correct just because it is done by the masses.

I am sure we could or would see many mixed feelings (good and bad) over that option but sometimes I guess, people need to relax a bit and enjoy the view no matter where it comes from (I can agree on that hands down).

From a professional work environment, I can see and endorse that idea it should not happen (gives mixed or the wrong signal, a leader does not need to get you to lead by having a nice body (but I am sure it helps) if the person has the experience and background knowledge base to support that view. Lead by example, not by a sexual drive (although through time, that too has been a factor in many cases globally). I guess this debate can go both ways all day but in the US Military, it is not the conduct expected or desired, all in the military are instructed and swear an oath to uphold and defend, part of that oath is to follow the rules which she broke (good or bad).

The publicity from this event is not good for the overall service but until that attitude is changed legally, it is her problem and she knew what she was doing. The only reason Playboy gave her a shot is because she was in the military and knew it would raise eyebrows for their circulation. I agree the body looks great but I have seen better heads in the vegetable department at my local store Smile

The differences between Europe and the USA in many cases were the very reason the USA was formed, that was to be different but that too was a long time ago....I try and enjoy the best the world has to offer no matter where I might be but I think the woman was and is wrong in her present work environment but that's life I guess.

You might be right about the “Playboy-effect” there Phil. But it is a fact that the list with things that are “not done” in the US is a lot longer than here in Belgium.

And you got to cheer up a little. I know you guys are well trained professionals and I do respect you and all men and women in the Belgian military. A lot.

And I’m sure not the only one.

Yeah I meant to ask that. Does anybody know if there is a rule that says it is against regulation to pose for (nude) magazines, talk to the press about anything.
And if there is, what exactly does it say?

‘Cause if there is and it says that what she did is forbidden, well, then she knew what she had coming to her, so she can’t defend herself anymore.

Yes, in the USAF and DoD (collectively), it is covered in what is called the Uniformed Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) it clearly outlines the behavior expected and demanded by its military and civilian employees, when we join the US Military we agree to abide by those regulations, it is taught and briefed to you numerous times over your tenure in the military or civil service...training and more training...endless sometimes.

It covers in detail the behavior expected both on or off duty, she knew this and decided to go against it....bad call, I hope it was all worth it for her

Well then, I rest my case.

No problem...it might seem strange to non US folks, but to those of us that lived it or was part of that system, we too had to live with it (good or bad) but after awhile, many of us could see the sense in much of it, professionally speaking that is. Thumb

But thanks for sharing your views, nice to see someone else's thoughts on the subject - side note, I have a female boss right now, she is built like a brick shithouse (solid, beautiful eye candy and smart as a whip)...I'd follow her anywhere If she would let me) Smile

Wow. Talk about clueless. I hope she doesn't have any long term goals of seeing the senior NCO ranks. Ditto with special duty assignments etc.

It's a ploy to get recruitment up! See.... young kid peeks at dads playboy, see's nude woman in 1/2 AF uniform, hears that she's an instructor, runs to the recruiter. Once he's in, too late young Jedi - you're intructor is fully clothed and a man...

Seriously though, I foresee a civilian lawyer dragging this all over the press, the AF getting a black eye along the way. End result will be that she eventually will not re-enlist.

If the press and civvie lawyer keep her from being punished and discharged, she will be under a micro-scope for the remainder of her career.... and eventually kicked out for some other infraction like being late for duty.

You know... the same way we get rid of bad eggs now... start the paper trail, build the package, lower ratings on the epr based on the paper trail - we are all late eventually, we all make some insignificant mistake - - the oppoortunity is always there for someone to press charges.

Sad but true.

Hey maybe she could teach sexual education in highschool. And while she's at it, teach those punks some dicipline.

My main problem is that she appeared in partial uniform. It's disrespectful to the uniform and all those who have died in uniform. And wearing the uniform for a commercial venture creates an association that links you to your employer. What if she was the director of the American Medical Association and did the shoot in a doctors outfit with and AMA logo on it? Or if she were a Senator and was wearing the logo of the Republican National Committee? Those organizations would also undoubtedly press charges and nobody would be surprised. In my civilian job I cannot wear articles of clothing that promote our competitors. Not that this is the same - just an example of rules regarding dress and behaviour. We are also restricted from criticizing the government while in uniform.

The uniform is a symbol of a national organization that has rules governing its wear and the behaviour of its members. She swore an oath to abide by those rules and chose to disobey them. It really isn't a matter of morality or prudishness. To me she has cheapened all the values and professionalism of the American Military Fighting Men (and Women).

People might wonder why this is a big deal. One of the things that must be remembered is that the military needs money. Money comes from tax payers. Tax payers hate paying taxes, especially when they are paying someone’s salary and that person is doing things that the tax payer might find unethical.

From a commander or political point of view, it may bring a negative light on the military. Actions like these have to be delt with. Regardless of how every individual (or even the majority) thinks about someone posing in Playboy, if one individual finds it offensive it has to be delt with.

Kindler-gentler!!

Master-of-Disaster wrote:

And something else: if you think it’s bad thing for your organisation or company if one of your employees is but naked in a magazine, or anything else for that matter, it’s not smart to make a lot of noise about it. And it doesn’t make her bad in what she does for a living, does it?

I somehow doubt it's the USAF that's making a lot of noise about this.

Davis83 wrote:

Seriously though, I foresee a civilian lawyer dragging this all over the press, the AF getting a black eye along the way. End result will be that she eventually will not re-enlist.

Yup.

And I'm glad it was established that one's culture and views on something cannot be directly applied to another's culture.

Forum: Air Force Life

Playboy photos USAF Female SSgt [warning: 18+]