Forum: General F-16 forum

Flight gear for Trans Atlantic flight normally ...

includes the infamous "poopy suit" ...

I'm surprized you guys havn't brought it up until now ... I got a chuckle out of Madsabre 16 saying "geeking out" ... this gets right to the heart of the matter from the "we're actually going to do it" point of view ... it all has to do with risk management ...

What do I mean...

- When the water temp gets low (as it always is in the north Atlantic, where all trans flights go because it's the great circle route), it really doesn't matter what kind of survival pack you have, if your hands are so cold as soon as you hit the water that you can't open anything or even get in your raft ... so the "poopy suit" is kinda required before one can get on to anything else. ... irt to the suit ... it's not easy to get into (although those guys who wear it everyday due to their ops location get pretty good at it) ... I've never experienced a good place to put it on & I've never cared if females were around while I stripped down to make it happen (higher thoughts happening), an average unit doesn't really have the facilities for this suit up. ... the website mentioned does not include info on the poopy suit ... it's worthy of it's own individual study, as there are many varients ect.

- For cmjohnson: no F-16's I know of are privately owned ... if the government is going to fly you then they are taking reposibility for your safety ... this means they very likely will not allow you to use your own gear ... they will provide equipment that they know is servicable because their life support pros will ensure it's so (guys who take great pride in making sure their stuff is 100% ready to go always) ... 1st off they care about you so they'll want to provide your gear ... 2nd, there would be a huge liabilty risk to allow you to use your own equipment ... I'd be very surprised to see any US Service sponsor it ... so I'm assuming you'll fly with ? .... .... why would you want to take an intro to the Viper on an 11 hour mission? ... I've done quite a few & they are amongst the worst possible ways to enjoy a flight in a fighter.

- Why would a pilot not wear something like Combat Edge into the fray? .... risk management ... he feels he doesn't need the extra G tolerance because he's capable on his own & he doesn't like the trade off of ... perhaps cumbersome, hot equipment ... equipment that can restrict his vision ect. ... he's going to wear what he no kidding needs, decided upon by himself, not by someone sitting on the ground somewhere ...

- want more grist for this whole topic? .... start talking about chem warfare equipment! Shocked

This is a good topic ... This site continually amazes me at what everybody out there is interested in ... and how much detail they know ... shazam!!

F-16.net Sponsor

For F-16VIPER... you guys in Sydney know what "poop" means don't you? ... wearing the suit makes it almost impossible to use a piddle pack (I have succeeded, but it was quite a chore, big difficult zipper, too many layers of clothing), so the alternatives of the "texas catheter" or big ole diapers are used ... but we're talking #1 here ... ...if you need to go #2 ... well there is no satisfactory solution ... if it became actually a "poopy suit" for you ... well, then your friends won't want to be aound when you take it off!

As for the oxygen regulator ... I think your friend madsabredude is trying to get you to look at the big picture ... just like he does with his students ... ie. all your detail is cool & good, but there are big factor areas he's interested in ... if the oxygen flow fails then everything else doesn't matter ... you can't breathe & or your cooling to your equipment is gone ... either way you're going to be toast soon unless you take some emergency action. His point is yeah look at the details, they're important, but above all keep the big common sense picture in mind.

Best of luck to you mate ... in it all!

dyno and rest of the guys:
Thanks for your answers, they are putting me in the right direction. I am researching about the specific topic of Flight gear used by USAF F-16C pilots with the intention of producing a webpage that will fill this void for all of us to learn this fascinating subject. Maybe even as part of this website, who knows.

Now, the following comments:

- RAAF pilots deployed to Iraq through Diego Garcia, so I imagine they wore immersion suits. Never seen one wearing it do.
- You are right, good picture is good, I am studying my F-16 manual as well. I will hopefully get an integral view at the end.
- Correct me if I am wrong but some USAF commands have instructions that make combat edge and other flight and survival gear mandatory. So obviously pilots do not have a choice as far as using combat edge is concerned. Do you always wear combat edge when flying an F-16?
- Do you Viper drivers carry a Data Transfer Cartridge with mission planning to the plane?
- Do you carry a portable GPS in your survival vest?. Do you know what model it is?. whereabouts in the vest do you keep it.

You have no idea how much I envy you, I wish I could had been a pilot!. regards

Here in Japan the poopy-suit is required for about eight months a year. It takes about 10 minutes to dress to fly with that. You also get really good at using a piddle pack with it on. And the life-support shop smells wonderful for those entire eight months.

Hey F-16VIPER ... what's the haps down under? ... ie. "howdy" Very Happy

... a few thoughts on your Q's Question

Quote:

- RAAF pilots deployed to Iraq through Diego Garcia, so I imagine they wore immersion suits. Never seen one wearing it do.
- You are right, good picture is good, I am studying my F-16 manual as well. I will hopefully get an integral view at the end.
- Correct me if I am wrong but some USAF commands have instructions that make combat edge and other flight and survival gear mandatory. So obviously pilots do not have a choice as far as using combat edge is concerned. Do you always wear combat edge when flying an F-16?
- Do you Viper drivers carry a Data Transfer Cartridge with mission planning to the plane?
- Do you carry a portable GPS in your survival vest?. Do you know what model it is?. whereabouts in the vest do you keep it.

You have no idea how much I envy you, I wish I could had been a pilot!. regards

- Australia to Diego Garcia to Iraq is flying over all warm water I'm thinkin ... no poopy suit required (the AF has a reg that says below such & such a temp you will wear it ... above that temp of course a pilot can wear if he chooses, which would probably be real smart, but most won't wear it voluntarily ... "it can't happen to me" ... I can't remember the exact temp ... 62 degrees F? ... based on when you'd have less than 5 min worth of reaction time in the water when not wearing a suit? ... need a Life Support Guru to tell us Confused

)

- "good picture" means "big picture"? Smile

... yeah it's good ... it's more than good for the fighter pilot, it's required ... BUT ... there's nothing wrong with being a "geek", ie. THE EXPERT on this pilot equipment stuff ... your website plans sound awesome ... if that's your bag, then take it as a compliment when a pilot calls you a geek ... pilot's are just being "geeky" about something else! Laughing

- Fighter pilots have a great amount of discipline & carry out the Regs to the best of their ability ... sometimes the aircraft commander has to make some common sense decisions & has the freedom to do what is just simply right (for mission, safety, survival) when necessary ... in an actual combat situation the pilot in command will use his equipment to best ensure mission success ... different situations (threat scenarios ect.) will require different approaches ... there is no set answer ... you've heard "flexibilty is the key to airpower" right? ... anyway "always" must use Combat edge? ... nothing is "always" to a fighter pilot (except obvious stuff like more thrust is better, of course, ... but even then, what if you're aborting? ... you get the idea ... yes some things are "always", like Newtons Law's yeah yeah yeah) ... anyway you know what I mean... & you know who is the aircraft commander in the Viper ... gotta love single seat baby! Wink

- Yes Viper pilots carry a DTC ... (we didn't back in the A models ... heck probably even A models do now? ... only old Corsair II pilots & Arrdvaark WSO's really know how to manually input stuff good enough to be a veritable "HumanDTC" Laughing

)

- No portable GPS's that I'm aware of ... often pilots customize what they carry though ... I have no doubt some of em have one of those tucked away ... maybe some other guys will respond

- You envy us? ... ..."grass is always greener ..." ... you live in Sydney dude! ... I envy you! Exclamation

Cheers

Guys:
Thanks again for your answers and support. My apologies if I make some mistakes ("good picture"). I write this stuff during my luch break.

Sorry if it appears I am asking questions without a logical order, but I am trying to fill up some voids In the info I have.

Please tell me:

- You have one long hose connected to your garment on the left side. Where does it connect to and who does it, is it you or the crew chief and at what point does it get connected to the plane.
- Same question for the hose for coming from the Integrated terminal block
- What sort of set up do you carry out in relation to the Oxygen regulator before Take off. This is I reference to purpose of moving switches in the panel for the oxygen regulator.
- And the last of this lot, hoping is not to intimate: Do you wear flame retardant socks, or underwear?

I am just thinking if synthetic under-garments could be a problem in a fire situation.

Ahhh, weather is beatuiful here in the middle of winter, but just does not rain anymore.

regards.

Tighty Whities....

Cylon

Guys:
have a look at these two intersting links, the first is for the precursor of "combat edge" called "TLSS" and the second is for "outfitting a fighter pilot".

http://webs.lanset.com/aeolusaero/Artic ... rticle.htm
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/xplanes/outfit.html

Have you Viper drivers have ever looked like this?. This one is for an F-15 pilot. What are the visual differences you can see compared to your outfits.

This is what I know so far in terms of flight gear activities after walkaround for a pilot about to fly an F-16C with Combat Edge. Can anybody please confirm it is accurate

After completing the pre-flight walk-around, the pilot finishes hooking up the harness and zips the G-suit up the rest of the way, and sets up the cockpit switches for flight. Next, the pilot straps in to the ejection seat, the crew chief assisting by hooking up the anti-G suit hose on the side of the pilot's lower garment, to the hose going on the left side of the seat and connected to the left console behind the seat (see diagram). The Crew Chief then hooks the chute harnesses to his harness (the pcu-15 torso harness gets connected to the koch fittings that belong to the Aces II ejection seat), climbs down and removes the ladder.

The pilot makes last minute adjustments to his switches and trim, puts on the helmet, and hooks the oxygen hose from his oxygen mask to the Integrated Terminal Block (CRU-94), attaches the ITP to his harness, and plugs it into to his CE vest. The hose from the ITB then connects to the Oxygen/Communications hook up on the right side panel. The hook up is connected to the side of the oxygen regulator panel (OR0050 “Combat Edge” CRU-98/A Oxygen Regulator) on the right console of the cockpit,

Take off proceedures are continued after carrying out all the oxygen connections.

Can anybody confirm the following:

1- When does the mask's helmet bladder connector get fitted to the helmet side and does the pilot do it himself.
2- Is the hose for the Counter-pressure vest connected to the vest or the ITB.
3- At what point does the pilot insert the Data Transfer Cartridge into the right console panel.
4- At what point does the pilot check that the system is supplying oxygen to the pilot.
5- Is the MA-2 Torso harness still in use or has its use been discontinued.
6- What is the model of the Garmin type Personnal GPS worn by pilots of some USAF commands such as PACAF.

Looking forward to your comments. Regards

I liked the pictures of the guy loaded down with all the equipment. Reminds me of flying in Korea or the pond crossings...only thing missing is the PLD.

As far as the questions:
1 - It gets connected by life support personnel when they "build" the helmet. We as pilots never touch it after that...no reason to.

2- It is somewhat permanantly attached to the vest. We will plug it into the CRU-94 once we get settled in.

3- Whenever we want but usually before we get strapped in. In fact, if it's clear enough to see the ground reference points, I won't even load it. It only becomes really important for complex missions when you don't have time to hand-jam all the info.

4- When he breathes in. If you can't breathe, turn it on.

5- You'd have to ask a life support troop since I don't have a clue what the designation of any of my gear is.

6- It depends. I want to say I remember it being a model 55. It wasn't high-tech as they are now. Just good enough to give your position and range and bearing to the SARDOT. Pretty useless in any kind of foliage. You would have to compromise your position in a CSAR situation to get the satellites to ring in.

madsabre16:

thanks very much for the feedback. I am wondering if a pilot at an USAF airbase not flying that day would normally wear the flight suit, or a uniform would be required, and also, if a pilot is required to wear "Combat Sweat" during combat missions since it is not known if more than 4Gs will be pulled during the mission.

regards.

We wear the flight suit all the time. There are very few instances we would wear anything else.

only a few guys wore the combat edge in war. We genereally only wear it for training flights where we anticipate pulling more than 6 g.

Don't be surprised to see CE gear removed from use in the USAF. They would keep the MBU-20/P, just would put a plug in place of the helmet bladder supply hose on the O2 hose. What is the opinion of any viper drivers when it comes to the MBU-12/P verses the MBU-20/P CE mask. Heard mixed reviews on fit and comfort. I find it easier to get a mask fit on a pilot when using a 20/P.

Derwood
ALS Dude

Madsabre16 and Derwood:
thanks for your input. It seems funny that CE is worn during training and not during combat. I thought the main purpose of it was to increase tolerance to G forces during combat and to reduce the rate of pilots dying due to G-loc even during training. Is it because as other guys said too, it is too unconfortable to wear?. Makes you too sweaty.

Derwood, do you know the model and make of the portable GPS carried by pilots in the squadron you support?. Do you have a photo of it?

F-16Viper:
Most of the combat sorties flown are fairly low G. If you look at the Gulf War conflicts, there was no real air threat, which means that there won't be a lot of G's pulled. With that, and the 100+ degree heat in the middle east, it's no wonder that the Combat Edge equipment is left behind in the Life Support Locker.

Typical training air-air missions will pull way more G's than any combat mission...ie. BFM/ACM type training missions where the typical G load is in excess of 7 Gs

BTW, I just checked our survival vests, and we have Garmin Etrex Vista GPSs.

V/R

Gus

Forum: General F-16 forum

Gear worn by Viper drivers