Forum: Military Aircraft of the Cold War

Yeah, that's the one Kevin! Looked to me like it was somewhere out west, and it may very well have been the same one Gums described, only as I said before, I don't recall the A-7s having shark faces on their noses (if not, then most likely not the 23rd TFW.) But yeah, look on your tape, and if possible let me know the tail code of the jets. Concerning the crash in Indy, I don't know what his problem was. Engine fire, engine failure, head inserted into @$$. It could be a variety (or combination thereof) of factors.

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Found an article on the Indy A-7 incident: http://www.f-117a.com/A7.html

The aircraft (and pilot) involved were part of the 4450th, working up the F-117 program. The article cites engine failure but implies the crash was most likely due to the directions of the civilian ground controller.

The last US air strikes into Cambodia took place on 15 August 1973. American airpower saved the Cambodian regime during that summer. This USAF A-7D was seen while flying toward a target in the vincinity of Phnom Penh, in July 1973. (USAF via A. Grandolini)

ACIG Journal Cambodia story:
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_412.shtml

Ahem!

HABU WARNING HABU WARNING

I must point out that the last bombs dropped by any USAF SLUF's were on 15 May 1975 at a place called Koh Tang Island.

I also remind all that I personally crossed the Thai-Laos border seconds before the 'cease fire' in late Feb 1973, after bombing some PL near Savahnakett (spelling?).

PLZ refer to:

http://www.geocities.com/lbarnett777/

Read the Newsweek article.

I reported to Korat the day before the Saigon evac, so I missed out on that one.

A few weeks later, my roommate was the flight lead on alert. We were the 3TFS, the only dedicated air-to-mud and SAR outfit in the whole theater. Medley drew a picture on the reefer depicting the boat and the island and all.

I missed out on Mayaguez because a Lt from my flight was duty pig and kept calling folks all thru the night and generally keeping all from sleeping. The orders were chaning by the minute, and our take-off times were also changing. The Ops Officer finally came over to my hootch and told me to get down to Ops and send the Lt home. So I missed out on Mayaguez. Hell! I later led the last flight out in Dec 75 (see post on another thread), so I still had my claim to fame.

The whole history of Mayaguez leaves out the folks from my squad who were the only close air support aircraft during the whole thing. They were also the ones who the Capt of the Mayaguez describes that attacked the patrol boats carrying the crew to the mainland after the boat was stopped(by my flight troops).

One of my young Lt's sank a patrol boat using 2.75 inch rockets. Another strafed a patrol boat to take out just the rudder, and not harm the folks onboard. They were also the ones who 'gassed' the boats that Cpt Wilson talks about in the Newsweek article.

Much more about that episode. It was the epitome of the whole damned war. Too much close control by Washington, too little coord among the various units and services, and on and on.

To this day, I cry about the whole thing. We lost some super troops due to poor coord, intelligence data that was not passed to the Marines, and on and on.............

One of our young troops watched in horror as the first two Jolly's got hosed and crashed near the beach. Our unit had been prevented from escorting them or laying down suppressive fire. He described the blood in the water and was visibly shaken during mission debrief. Jeez, still gets my blood boiling.

I can talk a lot more about Koh Tang Island on another thread.

out,

One of my bosses was a photographer on the Mayaguez incident. Went for a helicopter ride and ended up playing door gunner when that guy got hit.

I was wondering about the SLUF the other day, and this concept popped into my head. I'm about 99.999% certain it was never done, but could, in theory, an A-7D have been landed on a carrier by a Navy SLUF pilot? What were the visible external differences (if any) between the D and E model SLUFs, other than refueling method?

What I mean to say rather, is what were any external differences that would have allowed/disallowed a theoretical carrier landing? Weren't the landing gear and tailhook on the D model, the same as on the Navy version? Also, if the landing gear was the same on both models, then wouldn't the D model also have the component on the nose gear (forget what it's called) that engages to the carrier's catapult shuttle? If it did, then theoretically, the D model would have been able to do a Cat Shot, yes?

Remember, this is all THEORY, so please be gentle with me Wink

Also, I have a bombing question. In the film "Flight of the Intruder," during the scene where they bomb Hanoi, they make their initial pass (everyone with me so far?) Ok, well, if one recalls the bombs don't release on their initial pass. When Jake (the Pilot) asks Cole (the BN) why, Cole says "All that jinking around must've thrown off the ACU." Ok, so here's my question, What is an ACU? Is this a real component? I would assume it has something to do with the targeting computer. Alas, I wasn't an avionics troop, so I don't know.

Ok, so, those are my topics for the day, a USAF A-7 on an aircraft carrier (in theory) and the "ACU." Hope Gums reads this one Cool

Laters.

Yo ho!

You're right about the gear, TC.

We could have landed on a boat, but the maintenance guys would've had to add the doofer on the nose gear for the cat. All the holes and fittings seemed to be there, but we didn't have that doofer that came out and fit into the cat.

Tried to get Navy to let us make low passes and maybe a bounce and go on the America, but no dice. The America SLUF drivers had an exchange deal with us, and would fly their 'E" models up to Korat for R & R.

nice thing about carrier-qualified arresting gear was that we could take a wire in an emergency at almost any speed and weight. I made two intentional arrestments due to problems, and one inadvertant arrestment (another war story).

The gizmo that controlled our weapon release was called an ASCU (Armament Station Control Unit) It had the codes for the ord and handled the pulses. It told the NAVWD (Navigation Weapon Delivery ) computer what we had on the station and how many. The ord was released by commands from the NAVWD ( like the F-16 FCC). Don't know what the Intruder ACU was, but I'll guess the 'A' was for armament, the 'U' for unit.

later,

Thanks for the info Gums. Cool

As soon as you said "Armament Station Control Unit" I figured that ACU must've been a shorter acronym for the same thing. Which leads to my next question. Now, I've heard this talked about before, and I think you and/or someone else mentioned something about this on one of the boards, but apparently once you arm your weapon of choice, and select your target, you can have the computer punch the bomb(s) off for you? I'm assuming that's what the job of the NAVWD is/was. Also cool to hear about the A-7s. Yeah, I still can't remember what that component on the nose gear of Navy a/c is called. I dunno. "Doofer" works for me. Wink

I used to use Dickfer all the time. Say, "Hand me that dickfer over there." "What's a dickfer?" "To pee with!" Oh yeah, just thought of something else. I've seen footage of Navy SLUFs landing, and there's an amber colored flashing light on the nose gear, next to the nose gear landing light. Did the AF SLUFs have this flashing light as well?

Salute!

OK, all you wannbes............. here's the deal since 1968.

F-4D (circa 1966-67) had this thing called 'dive toss'. Put the pipper on tgt, press and hold the pickle button. Computer would release the bomb when the 'computer' said it would hit.

The F-4 had no-kidding mechanical analog, gear-driven computers!!!!! Then the Apollo program and the F-111 came along.

Late 60's, Vought developed the second version of the A-7. It had the same computer that was used in the Lunar Module. Was a 16-bit digital doofer made by IBM. It coordinated all the nav systems and also computed the bomb trajectories using inertial info, air density, weapon ballistics, etc.

The SLUF dive-toss required the pilot to put the pipper on the tgt and then hold down the pickle button and steer left-right while pulling up. When the calculated bomb range equaled the calculated current range, the computer issued a release command. So we got 10-20 meter accuracy from 6,000 foot release altitude. This was amazing in 1969-1973. Nobody else could touch us.

The SLUF used it's radar for range to tgt, plus it used baro and inertial altitude. If no radar, then it used the other sources, including a radar altimeter. When you had the pipper on the tgt and pressed the button, the computer locked in your geometry and then provided the left-right steering cues, plus it showed a 'time-to-go' cue. Later computer software provided the CCIP (constant computed impact point) mode.

F-16 was first widely-produced jet to have CCIP. And it was awesome. As with the SLUF, it used the radar to provide range (slant range), plus baro alt, inertial alt, etc. So in 1975 or so, we could drop 10 meter bombs by simply flying the 'death dot' to the tgt and pressing the button. In all other ground attack modes, we designated the tgt using radar display or dive toss doofer, then held the pickle button down while steering left and right until the computer let the bomb fly.

P.S. TC! USAF SLUF's didn't have the light on nose gear - must have been a Navy doofer.

Inertial Altitude...Ok, think TC think! Alright, I'm going to break down the phrase into the two words and see if I get what you're describing. Would that be altitude above the designated target that is constantly changing, due to the motion of the aircraft?

Salute!

Inquiring minds want to know, huh?

The F-16 used 'system' altitude. Was baro-damped inertial altitude. The radar provided slant range and was cranked into the equation, as well. But we could drop without the radar using just system altitude.

The tgt altitude was preset by the pilot, and that was the altitude used if the radar was FUBAR or turned off. With radar, tgt altitude was calculated using slant range, system altitude and the radar's angle with respect to local level.

As you come down the chute, your Hat (height above tgt) is decreasing and bomb range is decreasing and horizontal range to tgt is decreasing. The FCC is updating both and when the time-of-fall for the egg meets the criteria - bam! The CCIP pipper shows where the FCC thinks the bomb will hit all the time, so you just fly the 'death dot' to the tgt and pickle.

later, I need a shot of Jeremiah Weed for my wrinkled brain cells.

Jeremiah Weed. Ah, the legend continues. Very Happy

I've heard several stories about Jeremiah Weed, and its alleged discovery by a pilot somewhere in Nevada. It was brought to Nellis and became some big legend/myth/etc. within the pilot community. I've never seen a bottle of it, but I'm trying hard to find it. Til then, must stick with my pal Jack Daniel and his partner Jimmy Beam. I must remember all of this info about bombing. Hopefully this will become useful to me within the near future, as TC really wants to go back in, as a pilot.

Quote:

I've seen footage of Navy SLUFs landing, and there's an amber colored flashing light on the nose gear, next to the nose gear landing light. Did the AF SLUFs have this flashing light as well?

That light indicates the airspeed of the aircraft to the LSO on the carrier. Green is overspeed, Yellow is on speed, Red is below speed. It is only used for landing on the Boat.

Eagle wrote:

That light indicates the airspeed of the aircraft to the LSO on the carrier. Green is overspeed, Yellow is on speed, Red is below speed. It is only used for landing on the Boat.

I think the three lights on the nose gear tell the LSO if the aircraft is on glideslope. While the pilot can correct his glideslope by changing speed, I don't think the lights directly reflect the aircraft airspeed.

Quote:

I think the three lights on the nose gear tell the LSO if the aircraft is on glideslope. While the pilot can correct his glideslope by changing speed, I don't think the lights directly reflect the aircraft airspeed.

They do tell the LSO Glideslope, but not through color. The lights are positioned in such a way that the wingtip lights and the Approach Speed Indexer form a straight horizontal line to indicate it is on slope. Also once the AOA is set, it is not changed at all until the aircraft physically hits the deck. (Jane's F/A-18 Hornet)

http://www.anft.net/f-14/f14-detail-gearnose.htm
The Approach Speed Indexer is the same indicator instrument as in the pilot's cockpit, just that the approach indexer on the noselanding gear is for the aircraft carrier's Landing Signal Officer. With the illuminated lights of the indexer, the LSO can judge the speed of the approaching F-14:

: a/c too slow
: a/c on speed
: a/c too fast

Forum: Military Aircraft of the Cold War

SLUF - A-7D and A-7E, ahead of their time