Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

Trying to defeat the F-22 itself is only part of the equation, the next part is defeating the systems that are going to be supporting it ie AWACS/JSTARS/ELINT/EWARFARE/DATALINK etc. Facing the raptor just by itself in combat is bad enough as it is, facing it kwowing it's being supported by all these systems working in cohesian, makes it rather a nightmarish prospect.

back to topic raptor beats the cat hands down Very Happy

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Remember that guy of the fact that according to trials now, the heat that is given out from the raptor's engines can't be tracked by IR missiles, it is stealth and has TV, even if the Tomcat is loaded with Pheonixes, it will not be of use, the F/A-22 will demolish the capable Tomcat. The Tomcat is a 70s aircraft, the Raptor is a 21st century aircraft.

How many times do I have to say it. Who wins depends on the scenario, ROE, and pilot skill.
Although I have to say the F-22 would probably win 9 out of 10 times.

Or 999/1000 Times or more, but whatever. Look, it doesn't matter who's in the Turkey. In a one on one, "fair" fight, a kid who was Told "This is Yaw, This is Pitch, This is Roll, and this is the throttle, this switch turns on the gunsight. Go shoot down an F-14." could probably do it. The F-22 is the epitome of cheating in Air Combat! In a target Rich environment she's virtually guaranteed at the very least 8 kills and could probably manage in 3 or 4 more with the gun. In the words of Johannes Steinhoff, "Controlled Suicide."

Sniper69 wrote:

You could also tell him the Turkey would get an AMRAAM up its tailpipes before it was able to get in IRST range. The F-14 aint all that [Link pending approval] Whistle

. I love the Turkey, but up against a Raptor all it could do is live up to that [Link pending approval] meat. Crazy Pilot

Hi, Im new [Link pending approval]

Well, I'm no expert. I've read a book that says (janes) that the AAS-42 IRST narrow beam provides better angular resolution than even the best fighter radars, so it can break out individual targets at lONGER ranges than the AWG-9 or APG-71. It does not provide range data as accurately as radar, but can still direct a Phoenix or Sidewinder shot (please do correct me if I am wrong). Maybe thats what the guys meant by beating th Raptor. Maybe he should rephrase his words and say it "It is possibe for the F-14 (D model) to detect the F-22 and has a bit more chance of winning compare to other fighter plane since it has a chance of detecting it". Hey, I'm not saying F-14 can win at all. Maybe thats what he meant.

I both love the aircrafts, the Tomcat and the Raptor. I do hate seeing the the poor and much underestimated Tomcat being compared to other modern aircrafts. Maybe the Tomcat is outclassed by the Raptor in dogfight since Tomcat is a pre-fly-by-wire system. But maybe the Tomcat (D model) may still have a bit chance because of its IRST. Maybe it all depends on the pilots/RIO and tactics.

But, hey. I'm not saying it can beat the F-22. Very Happy

Hey, I'm just going by what the pilots on this site say who've flown the aircraft. From what I understand, the F-14 is a Dog without a good BVR missile and in close it maneuvers like an F-4.

Quote:

Hey, I'm just going by what the pilots on this site say who've flown the aircraft. From what I understand, the F-14 is a Dog without a good BVR missile and in close it maneuvers like an F-4.

Absolutely true. WVR the Tomcat doesn't stand a chance against any other 4th Gen fighter. But if you put Slammers on it, it would a pretty awesome platform for reaching out and touching someone. Probably on par with the Eagle, but I'm not sure exactly which has a better radar. I think they're each better than the other at certain things. However, against the Raptor, the Tomcat would still get waxed BVR/WVR, like all 4th Gen fighters including the Viper. Doesn't mean I don't still love her though Very Happy

WILZ wrote:

YGTBFSM? What plannet are you from? Very Happy

You forgot to add: If the F-14 had glass 2, and a Hyperpowered plutonic laser it may have a chance.

Wow that was a good laugh! WILZ, you forgot to add a clever no-can-see-em type of cloaking device. That way the turkey could "sneak" up to the raptor.

And who is voting for the F14 in the poll? You've got to be kidding, right? There is no way the turkey could ever touch a raptor. Not a single time. The raptor does things most people cant even imagine a machine could do--let alone a jet fighter aircraft. It'll turn circles around a viper and accelerate straight up from takeoff as soon as the gear is in the well. Its BVR skills are sick and it is pracitcally invisble to radar when in its stealth mode.

Full grunt, the raptor is a monster. Almost invulnerable to anything with a 4 ship. If there were two raptors vs two turkeys, which is how it would happen, they'd never have a clue what was going on. Or take two raptors vs thirty turkeys--then the turkeys might have a chance. But even then, I bet the raptors with veteran eagle pilots in them would wax the floor with the F14s. It's just no contest.

WarEagleNR88 wrote:

WILZ wrote:

YGTBFSM? What plannet are you from? Very Happy

You forgot to add: If the F-14 had glass 2, and a Hyperpowered plutonic laser it may have a chance.

Wow that was a good laugh! WILZ, you forgot to add a clever no-can-see-em type of cloaking device. That way the turkey could "sneak" up to the raptor.

And who is voting for the F14 in the poll? You've got to be kidding, right? There is no way the turkey could ever touch a raptor. Not a single time. The raptor does things most people cant even imagine a machine could do--let alone a jet fighter aircraft. It'll turn circles around a viper and accelerate straight up from takeoff as soon as the gear is in the well. Its BVR skills are sick and it is pracitcally invisble to radar when in its stealth mode.

Full grunt, the raptor is a monster. Almost invulnerable to anything with a 4 ship. If there were two raptors vs two turkeys, which is how it would happen, they'd never have a clue what was going on. Or take two raptors vs thirty turkeys--then the turkeys might have a chance. But even then, I bet the raptors with veteran eagle pilots in them would wax the floor with the F14s. It's just no contest.

Wow, and I thought this was a dead topic, the last time someone posted on this was back in.... November. Laughing

Plain and simple, if Chuck Norris was flying the Ole Cat, it would bravo smack 6,969 Raptors in one sortie using only 2 mike-9s, 3 dash 7s, 1 Phoenix, and a round house kick.

But, since Chuck Norris does not need an aircraft to fly at Mach 5, nor an AWACS to datalink for targeting the round house kick, this discussion is totally academic... LMAO

Lawman wrote:

Remind him the the F-14 is limited to [Link pending approval] G Maximum because of airframe fatigue and stress concerns. Compaired to the F-22's 9.

Hi to all !

I'm new here and not sure if I stay however me as TOMCAT fan (hardcore) can tell you that you r completely wrong here about the Gs.

The TOM can pool more then [Link pending approval] Gs ,and there is solid proof about it so TURNING and pooling high Gs is not the mater here.

The F22 is the newest state of the art tech-jet , the TOM is 36 years OLD (much respect to that) and it was never and i repeat NEVER designed to fight jets like F-22s.
Most jets today flying in other AIR FORCES around the globe would have a hard time with the F-14A not to mention F-14Ds.

The F-14 has a very sophisticated radar and data link system witch gives a pack of TOMs some advantages among others, however I cant predict duel F-22 vs F-14.
The F-22 has stealth tech on board and the TOM doesn't and the nozzles are more advanced by the RAPTOR so I assume with all that the TOM my lose ,still air engagements are very unpredictable so it will depend on many factors but most important are the pilot's and experience that they have.

And again the TOMCAT is not designed to fight such advanced aircraft.

But what I know 4 sure that the TOM kick but to these one: F-16,F-15,F-18,SU-27,SU-25,MIG 21,MIG 25 and may others some of them are painted on some TOMCATs noses Smile

"ALWAYS BABY!"

I will surrender that the Raptor can kill a Tomcat very easily, but I will never surrender that the Tomcat was the epitomy of what a Naval Air Superiority fighter should be. Its sad to see the beloved Tom go the way of the Dodo, but it happens. Times change, planes change, pilots change...it has its legacy though and the Raptor still has to build its name...not in training sorties, but in nose to nose combat against real enemies who want to see it dead. That is the test of the technology war and it succeeds there then it has set in the stone the way of future.

That said the Navy is missing out on a true venerable replacement to the F-14 Tomcat. The F/A-18E Super Hornet is an agile and strong fighter worthy of its title, but there are times that I think the Navy should have looked into an ATF for themselves not into aircraft like the F-35 to try and replace it. Oh well it is the way things are and that can't be changed so I say goodbye to a gorgeous and deadly aircraft.

Finally let this debate rest and allow the Tomcats to rest because they have earned that right much like the Phantoms, Sabres, Corsairs, Hellcats, Mustangs, and Lightnings before her.

(A side not I still will hold dear the fact that there are still F-14s waiting to be sent into combat again should our country need them.)

well do you ppl recall the conflict in ex YUGOSLAVIA ? The TOMS made some bombing there (basically Bosnia) and the exYU army "shoot down" an f-117 over Serbia?!

The scenario goes like this ,the F-117 (stealth ? Embarassed

) was on a mission flight to YU, Belgrade I [Link pending approval] YU army get the flight pattern ( well lets say an evil man get them that info Devil

) ,they set up a triangle radar site over the area monitoring for radar hole ,at the time they airborne a MIG21.

Once the hole was spoted they navigate the MIG to intercept the F-117 , the MIG got in VR tried to shoot the F-117 with missiles , fired one but it didn't lock the target and miss , the MIG pilot had no choice so he took a gun fight to the F-117 and downed him Embarassed

Lets see an over 50 years old tech plain gunned down the most hi-tech plain on the [Link pending approval] folks you see war is much more then simple 1on1 engagements and my muscle vs yours Wink