Forum: Military Aircraft of the Cold War

The Germans flew DACT against our Eagles, Vipers, and Hornets. As for what went on at Tonopah, probably best to not go there...

As for ours, the US no longer flies the Moldovan birds that we bought in the 90s. However, if you go to Wright Pat, you can see one on display.

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Jensen wrote:

Sorry, you are wrong. They sold them to Poland.

I knew Germany had got rid of their Fulcrums, I had no idea where they went 'til I read your post. Thanks for the info!

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:

if the US has Fulcrum, why not use them for DACT?

Cope India.

regards, OL

(if you operated 'em, you'd have to support 'em in limited numbers. $$$)

True about currently doing Cope India exercises and operating expense. Plus, the Indians can bring their birds to Red Flag, and we also have our own aggressors/adversaries that can duplicate their tactics...a lot of redundancy there to make the continual operation of just 21 aircraft feasible.

Besides, the biggest underlying reason we purchased those Fulcrums was to keep them out of the hands of a nuclear-capable adversary, i.e., Iran, who had shown interest in the planes.

Last edited by Jensen on Dec 22, 2008 - 05:23 AM; edited 2 times in total

parrothead wrote:

Jensen,
Would you care to elaborate about the deployments to the United States?

A little bit, sure! There were deployments to the US from 1999 - 2003. The first time in 1999 to participate Red Flag at Nellis AFB. But it made no sense to choose to loose. It was the first and last time at Red Flag. From 2000 to 2002 we were guest of the 422.TES at Nellis AFB for special exercises. The US Air Force said to our Pilots: "fly your own tactics and fight the best you can. We try to fight back to beat you." Both sides noticed that this is the best for every pilot. It´s not a secret that an AMRAAM could kill a Fulcrum in a BVR shoot. But what is if a Fulcrum is waiting for you deep in a canyon and your radar couldn´t see it? The MiG circle down between the walls and you fly above on your own CAP. And before you could kill the MiG some of your guys got killed. This and and other things were teached and learned. The last deployment 2003 was for an excersise called Sniper/Grace at Eglin AFB in Florida. Life missle firing against drohnes and QF-4´s inclusive. But don´t asked me for results. But I think a few drones and minimum one QF-4 should be wet on the ground of the Gulf of Mexico. Rolling Eyes

TC wrote:

However, if you go to Wright Pat, you can see one on display.

A Fulcrum on display at Nellis near the "Warrior Inn" should be a former Moldawian too. But they painted it in former East German colors.

Quote:

As for ours, the US no longer flies the Moldovan birds that we bought in the 90s. However, if you go to Wright Pat, you can see one on display.

Down in Quincy, Illinois there are the two Fulcrums that are privately owned, as well

Mods, MiGht i suggest we wrap this topic up with any other "Constant Peg" related threads...just a suggestion.

The Fulcrum purchase, as you may know, was a separate program from HAVE DOUGHNUT, HAVE DRILL, and CONSTANT PEG. However, I'll see where this one goes for a bit, and if it looks like something that could be merged at a later time, I'll look into it then.

Jensen -

Thanks for the reply Smile

I had no idea about any of that. I grew up around NAS (now MCAS) Miramar and the Navy. I learn something new here everyday.

Jensen wrote:

TC wrote:

However, if you go to Wright Pat, you can see one on display.

A Fulcrum on display at Nellis near the "Warrior Inn" should be a former Moldawian too. But they painted it in former East German colors.

I'd wondered about that jet. It's still strange as a "child of the Cold War" to drive around Nellis and see MiGs and Sukhois just laying around.

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:

if the US has Fulcrum, why not use them for DACT?

The U.S. did use Fulcrums for Dissimilar Air Combat Training for a while (forget the name of the exercise). And don't forget former East Germany's Fulcrums the U.S. trained against them as well, before germany sold them.

Quote:

And don't forget former East Germany's Fulcrums the U.S. trained against them as well, before germany sold them.

That ex was Red October 99 IIRC, was primarily Bugs, Discovery did a show about it.

To add a little to the story.

About a decade ago, the idea was floated to sell/transfer some of the Moldovan 29s to MiG operators in the new-NATO to rapidly boost their inventories. The US response was not quite a "no" but it might as well have been.

As already noted, the MiGs were in pretty bad shape; they required extensive upgrades to achieve even a rudimentary NATO interoperability not to say anything of combat effectiveness. Many were also of the fat-back Fulcrum C variety so there would have been some compatibility issues. If memory serves, they were also lacking the desired weapons fit, which really threw a wrench into the plan.

Ski

Thought you guys would be interested.

Andy

http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... mp;start=0

I thought the MiG-29 was relatively small until I saw it parked next to that 350Z! THEN I saw how much bigger the Flanker variants were compared to the Fulcrum! Those Flankers dwarf the -111s I worked!! They're HUUUGE!

Forum: Military Aircraft of the Cold War

USAF-Operated MiG-29 Fulcrums