Forum: Civil and General Aviation

Sure thing. Laughing

What the heck, I could build their helmets for them. Wait. Do they even WEAR helmets?

That's one for Arsenio Hall's "Things That Make You Go Hmmm..."

I don't know about harnesses or G suits in the MicroJet. I don't think they have either. I think it's a standard 4 point belt.

Ok, if I'm going to be on this ground crew, I guess I need to get my $hit together concerning BD-5 life support equipment.

Actually, you wanna know how to support your life? Don't get in a BD-5!

Beers and MiGs were made to be pounded!

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15 replies and NO ONE has mentioned the Zevko Edge 540??!!?? Cap 232? Sukhoi Su-26/29?

You may all have your faves, but the reality is, Edges, Caps and Sukhois dominate the unlimited category in international competition.

I was talking to Greg Poe a couple years ago, and he was telling me that compafred to the Edge 540, the Extra 300 is a trainer! I've flown a 300 before, and man was that ever fun! Point and shoot airplane, you could fly it all day long rightside up, upside down, or knife edge. And he was telling me this is not up to par with the Edge. Seeing as how Greg is a reknowned airshow pilot, I tend to believe that.

Mike Goulian chooses the Cap 232. He is an accomplished inertnational competitor, and author, I've got his books.

And Svetlana Kapanina, the Russian cutie Smile

, she flies the Sukhoi. Guys ever watch the aerobatic competition shows on DWings (when it was DWings)?

Kirby Chambliss has also gone the way of the Edge. He used to fly a Cap 232 as well.

I've seen Yaks and Zlins do some great stuff as well. But they just don't have the power of the top 3.

Sean D's Challenger is also a kickarse bird. But it's a custom built experimental, not available to anyone but Sean D.

Wayne Handley's Raven used to be another one-off bird that was totally amazing. A lightweight airplane with a Pratt PT6 on it! He could torque roll it, stop and hover, then CLIMB! It's too bad it was destroyed.

But make no mistake about it guys, Edges, Caps and Sukhois are the best acro airplanes in the air today. Wink

Can I go a tad off topic and ask a short two questions about the Cessna Aerobat ?

I have checked the web, and it looks like this baby is around 10k$ .. is this correct? Man if that's true ..
Also how much do you guys think it costs to fly one of these (average rent to park it in some hangar, fuel etc..) over the course of a year, taking that you fly at least 3 days a month? I never realised it could be kinda poissible to buy one, as a normal person, but hey, 10K is very tempting Smile

(btw I can't fly yet or anything, but I'm saving cash to take courses)

Thanks Smile

$10K, sounds really low. I'd have an A&P do a prebuy on it. How much to operate? Well that depends on where you keep it, and how much you fly it. Three times a month is ok, but I'd consider a leaseback to an FBO. It also depends on how well it was mantained by the previous owner, whether it sat out on the line, or in a hangar and whatnot. You could probably get the cost down to the mid-$40/hr range.

Had a friend who just paid 5K for this years annual. A good pre-buy will still not guarantee that the Annual won't eat you alive. And an inexpensive annual this year doesn't mean next years will be. And if an AD or Mandatory SB comes out......My advice to you is keep renting and let someone else foot the bill. If you are still flying five years from now then think about buying. Airplanes are like Exotic cars - you might find a good deal on one but the maintenance can kill you.

Good enough mate, thanks for the advice! I went to check out the f-16 program today from Belgium, and it's not my thing, It's harsh, if you make two errors with the flying, they can dismiss you as a pilot and you become a soldier or whatever and are stuck in the army for 13 years.. if your year doen't need any f-16s you can be stuck for 13 years flying a C-130.. if you get something in your eye/break your wrist in some freaky way etc.., your flying days are over (ok) but once again, you HAVE to stay (or pay this huuuge fee) in the army untill your 13 year contract is over.. I can understand people are willing to go for that, but for me it's pilot or nothing. Also since I got my degree already I can take this program that doesn't waste you another couple of years restudying the stuff you studied at college already, but they accept only one candidate a year that has graduated college elsewhere (so only one person gets to take part in pilot training, as a non Military academy graduate .. hmm, I hope you get it, I can't find the words to explain it) MAYBE (this year none..) so I would have to retake all the courses, to get only a chance to fly an f-16, not mess anything up, maybe get assigned to f-16 if the spots are needed the year I get assigned, then not mess anything up in my personal life or I become fragmeat (ok just kidding;)) for the next 13 years. Maybe if I was only 17 I would go for it, but not now, college has been hard enough already.

About the Cessna obsession, we had a nice little airfield here in our town, really, the thing you only find in Disney Movies.. but the town complained about the noise (the sexy engine sound!) and the strip is down now Sad

Wow, I'm sorry about the rant, I didn't even notice. Great news for me though, that airfield is reopened and gives training! YES! I'm so happy, you can't imagine! Very Happy

I'm with HABU- the Edge 540 is one of the best planes out there, according to the people who fly them (and know such things); they designed that airplane so the thrust line, CG (in pitch and roll) and yaw point were all within a couple inches of each other, making it one of the most "neutral" planes on the circuit. It is stressed to +- 20G (design failure point is even higher, something like 23-25)- the wing on that thing flexes less than 2" at 20G. Plus, I've got to fly a couple radio control versions (not the real thing I know, but...) and they flew better than any RC Cap, Sukuoi, Extra or Pitts I've ever spent time on. Besides, the 540T (two seater) is one of the sleekest, sexiest aerobats out there- it just looks lean and mean and ready to go. The Extra always has a place in my heart for looks too, though, but I just like the 540T better Smile

Last edited by allenperos on Jul 12, 2005 - 11:34 AM; edited 7 times in total

Just a note of respect for the Pitts S-2B. A 260 BHP CSP mini-biplane, it can show all of you young guys out there who have not had an intro to 37's, or who have not had an opportunity to fly in anything high performing. An intro in this aircraft will tell you immediately whether or not flying something high performing is for you. Vertical climbs, loops, SPINS, inverted flight, are all a given.

I've had the opportunity of flying one, it is a most impressive aircraft. Some of the S-2B's performance parameters are quite similiar to the 37. It's a smooth pull-up machine and sustains 4 G's and doesn't bleed energy like one might think, it can continue to perform from one maneuver into an other very smoothly conserving potential energy pretty well. The roll rate is probably faster than .8 seconds, its vertical climb capability will surprise you, between 60 and 40 mph, the S-2B will climb vertically for about 10 seconds prior to bleeding off all kinetic energy, then you'll be committed to doing something with your energy state.

The visibility in the air is superb, although I have mentioned it is not that great, on departure or arrival or taxing for that matter. When you're in the air, it will give you great visibility, even with wings top and bottom.

You begin a warm-up session by doing an FOD shakedown, that is, roll inverted, oscillate the nose, and collect any FOD, just like on an FCF procedure. Then it's time to have some respectful fun.

Pitts Special S-2B Statistics:

Wing Span: 20ft/low aspect ratio, bottom wing, 3 degree dihedral, top wing,
5 degree sweepback for better stall characteristics. Symetrical
airfoils except for the top wing.

Rudder Travel: 30 degrees.

Horizonta Stabilizer: 1.5 degree inclination.

Wing Surface Area: 125 sq/ft.

Normal/Utility Gross Weight: 1,700 lbs (772 kg)

Acrobatic Category: 1,575 lbs (716 kg)

Wing Loading: Gross Weight/Wing Surface Area

Maximum "G" Limits: Normal/Utility:Acrobatic Cateories, respectively:
+4/-2, +6/-4, Failure +9/-3 "G"

Crew: 1 or 2

Engine: 260 BHP/CSP, 6 cylinder Horizontally Opposed, Inverted Fuel/Oil
AEO-540 cu/in AIE Avco- Lycoming

Instrumentation: Aft cockpit: Altimeter, Manifold Pressure Guage,
RPM Guage, Oil Pressure/Temperature Guage,
"G" Meter, Fuel Quantity Gage: (Tube), measured in
lbs/Imp Gal, Ammeter/Voltmeter, Throttle/Prop Controls,
Inclonometer on Top Wing, CB panel, Safety Placard
(General)

Avionics: Optional, No Compass

Front Cockpit: Altimeter, Airspeed Indicator, "G" meter, Manifold Pressure
Guage, Safety Placards

Canopy: Two Piece: Jettisonable Plexiglass

Flight Controls: Dual-Symeytrical Ailerons (4), Elevator, Trim Tab, Rudder

Landing Gear: Tail-Dragger - Scott TailWheel; Turns with Rudder Input

Restraint System: 3 Point Hooker Harness

MAC: 3.75"

Electrical System: 12V/17Amp - 1 Battery Switch/1 Alternator/1 Master/ 1
Fuel Pump

The S-2C will kick the little 2B's Hieneken, though Smile

The S-2C rolls 35% faster than the S-2B- around degrees per second; I'm told it lands easier (more lift from more wing area = lower stall speed), though on the basis of a couple of flights in each I'm not good enough to confirm this, and has a superb 3-blade Hartzell prop worth around US$45k, which gives it better low speed thrust. The acceleration on take off is pretty impressive, which it should be, given it's got around 500 hp/ton, and you can't see ahead for the first few seconds.
I'm looking forward to flying one next week - it'll be operating for joyrides from Sydney, Australia in a few weeks - so I'll report back shortly with an update. Wink

Thanks guys, good to hear from you HappyJack, you were previously talking about spins with me a little while back, I did two upright, 2 turn spins, and they were quite impressive, yet, very recoverable with two pilots within cg limitations.

The S-2B was quite impressive and I plan on flying it some more. I will look into the S-2C since you guys are ranting and raving about it. No doubt, I'm going to see into comparing notes.

My projection for the future is to venture alittle more into spins, perhaps enhanced with coordinated aileron, maybe nose up entry, we'll see how it goes. I've done tons of spins in decathelons and a limited amount in the Pitts, we'll check it out. Personally, I've flown the T-37, and the performance characteristics are quite similiar! Lets keep this thread going, and keep posting. At least we won't get investigated by any agency. VPRGUY, do you fly????

allenperos wrote:

Thanks guys, good to hear from you HappyJack, you were previously talking about spins with me a little while back, I did two upright, 2 turn spins, and they were quite impressive, yet, very recoverable with two pilots within cg limitations.

The S-2B was quite impressive and I plan on flying it some more. I will look into the S-2C since you guys are ranting and raving about it. No doubt, I'm going to see into comparing notes.

My projection for the future is to venture alittle more into spins, perhaps enhanced with coordinated aileron, maybe nose up entry, we'll see how it goes. I've done tons of spins in decathelons and a limited amount in the Pitts, we'll check it out. Personally, I've flown the T-37, and the performance characteristics are quite similiar! Lets keep this thread going, and keep posting. At least we won't get investigated by any agency. VPRGUY, do you fly????

Allen, check out "www.airbum.com" and go to the "pireps" section; that website is run by Budd Davison, by all acounts one hell of a pilot (and a renowned pitts instructor, btw); he's got a review on there of his flight in an S-2C, plus tons of others.
As for me, no, I don't fly Crying or Very sad

Not full scale, anyway. I do RC, since that is as much as my budget can handle. I'd love to be able to get my license, and aerobatics are what I love to do, although I haven't had the opportunity to do any in 'real life'. I've been following the new sport pilot regs closely, that seems like it may finally bring flying full scale within my reach. We'll have to wait and see.
All my ranting and raving on here comes from what I've read (which I do alot of), researched, and discussed with those lucky enough to fly- which is always great fun.

VPRGUY - Get your private's, and then get some acro time. Buy your own Pitts, you can do it and you can afford it with alittle effort my friend...

It's the Robin R2160 for me my friends! Very Happy

Yeah I know not a heavyweight by any means, but a good little trainder acro bird.

Forum: Civil and General Aviation

Best aerobatic plane today?