Forum: General F-35 Forum

What thats it? i asked you a stright question and this is what you could come up with? I suppose the next thing coming is none of the Su/Russian fighter design can do anything else sinse they never proved them self in real combat.
I must say, this is low, and i expected more coming from someone claiming your CV.
Oh well, never underestimated nationalist feeling getting in the way of objectivity.

They don't probably do have better low speed handeling. They just do. Sure the ventral fins and twin verticals help in lateral stability, but on the flip side, it did not help the F-14 in Lateral stability.. go figure. The F-16 also have large ventral fins last time i've checked. Doesn't seems to help much.. And the singel vertical on F-16 are quite large for the fighter size too. Which doesn't seems to help much eighter.
There is no way the F-16 can fly as slow as F-18. The F-18 is a Carrier jet, its supposed to have good slow speed handeling due to its wing design, i thought this beeing obvious.
Design as Mig-29/Su-27 are not Carrier operating jets. And furthermore, all the lateral stability in the world does not stop an jet from falling out of the sky. That is where the slow speed handeling merge with high lift. But ofcourse you allready know this, but choose to ingore it..
Why don't you just claim that Sukhoi General designer Mikhail P. Simonov fighter designs was a failure, cause you seems to know better.

What thats it? i asked you a stright question and this is what you could come up with? I suppose the next thing coming is none of the SU/Russian fighter design can do anything else sinse they never proved them self in real combat.
I must say, this is low, and i expected more coming from someone claiming your CV.
Oh well, never underestimated nationalist feeling getting in the way of objectivity.

They don't probably do have better low speed handeling. They just do.
Sure the ventral fins and twin verticals help in lateral stability, but on the flip side, it did not help the F-14 in Lateral stability.. go figure. The F-16 also have large ventral fins last time i've checked. Doesn't seems to help much.. And the singel vertical on F-16 are quite large for the fighter size too. Which doesn't seems to help much eighter.
Enough with the lateral stability, the modern FCS(Flight Control Computer) is there to support the pilot in control any fighter jet.
There is no way the F-16 can fly as slow as F-18. The F-18 is a Carrier jet, its supposed to have good slow speed handeling due to its wing design, i thought this beeing obvious.
Design as Mig-29/Su-27 are not Carrier operating jets. And furthermore, all the lateral stability in the world does not stop an jet from falling out of the sky. That is where the slow speed handeling merge with high lift. But ofcourse you allready know this, but choose to ingore it..
Why don't you just claim that Sukhoi General designer Mikhail P. Simonov fighter designs was a failure, cause you seems to know better.

havaarla, Mig29 in particular was designed to operate from rough (grass) runways and had intake covers (while breathing through the LERXs) for that purpose, as well as variable pressure and very spread tires, for good stability while rolling on diverse surfaces.
Su27's derivative, ended up on carrier due the similar philosophy in original design.

However, all those extra lifting areas pile up on drag resultant as the speed increases and this is why there are only a few aircraft superior to F16 in performance, even today.

Obviously, F16 can't land on carrier or on grass runway, but no one asks for that anyway.



Yes, they are.

What's the L/D for the F-15 and F-16 vs MiG-29 and Su-27 at transonic and supersonic speeds? You know, where the fighting happens.

I haven't found any good sources for the 29 and 27, nor the 15 and 16 with stores.

If it's classified, why can I find 15 and 16 L/D stuff with google?

I would bet there's some good estimates available.

Also, what I've seen is that the higher the speed, the better the F-15 is vs the Su.

Cola@

Try not to simplify everything.
Upon the design and Creation of Mig-29/Su-27 they was not design for Carrier operation.

Later on however, they modified the Mig-29M into Mig-29K, with some changes.. you know 10% larger flap surface, The MiG-29K was modified from the Mikoyan MiG-29M for naval operations. The airframe and undercarriage were reinforced to withstand the stress experienced upon landing. you know, all that stuff that a Carrier operating jet need.

Pretty much the same story with Su-27 into Su-27K..

In short no, the Mig-29 and Su-27 are not Carrier jets.

haavarla,

My response was as respectful to you, to the Russian airplanes, and the Russian designers as I know how to be. If you don't agree with my comments, fine. I suggested a few posts ago that you lighten up and try to be a little less confrontational in your posts. You ignored my suggestion, so I will no longer respond to your posts, until you cease with the childish rants. You are making a fool of yourself and giving your nice country a bad name.

Quote: However, good low speed handling is not the result of superior lift, but of controllability at very high angles of attack, primarily the result of two vertical tails vs. one on the F-16.

o Concerning the F35 versus a Gripen, may I conclude this as well?


Quote: The F-16 is designed to handle better at combat airspeeds

o Although Saab claims the Gripen handles better, in a Dutch report (competition) was mentioned the Gripen was not that that much of an improvement above F16.

The airshow remark has also been made by at least one test pilot and seems to be borne out by combat records.

Cola@

Try not to simplify everything.
Upon the design and Creation of Mig-29/Su-27 they was not design for Carrier operation.

Later on however, they modified the Mig-29M into Mig-29K, with some changes.. you know 10% larger flap surface, The MiG-29K was modified from the Mikoyan MiG-29M for naval operations. The airframe and undercarriage were reinforced to withstand the stress experienced upon landing. you know, all that stuff that a Carrier operating jet need.

Pretty much the same story with Su-27 into Su-27K..

In short no, the Mig-29 and Su-27 are not Carrier jets.