Forum: F-16 versus XYZ

I remember hearing about that excercise. Yes a Marine squadron went down to run with the Israeli's. From what I recall they were flying red air to simulate Mig-29's because they had the same kind of low speed nose pointing ability of the Fulcrum. The Marines were using the excercise to test tactics that they believed to be inferior when engaging a threat that has a Helmet Mounted HOBS weapon system such as Python. I also remember that the excersice in question took place almost 15 years ago..... So as you can see from excercises like Red October Naval/Marine Air has come a long way in incorperating tactics to defeat a threat armed with such weapon systems.

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Ohhh that exercise. Thats the one that all Naval Aviators learn in Navy flight school. I just realized that I got robbed in my training in Pensacola, Corpus, Meridian and Virginia Beach. I guess that I'm not a real fighter pilot after all. D@mn, I guess I should have been reading my Jane's subscription instead of Natops, SOP's, Tacmans and TopGun. Rolling Eyes

INO wrote:

Ohhh that exercise. Thats the one that all Naval Aviators learn in Navy flight school. I just realized that I got robbed in my training in Pensacola, Corpus, Meridian and Virginia Beach. I guess that I'm not a real fighter pilot after all. D@mn, I guess I should have been reading my Jane's subscription instead of Natops, SOP's, Tacmans and TopGun. Rolling Eyes

Dont forget Combat Aircraft Magazine, its the authority on BFM tactics the world over. I mean after all thats where I read about the excercise so it must be spot on right? Rolling Eyes

Hehh, Hornet with power like F-16 will be another Fulcrum - good power, but no range and funny small payload.

Putting 2 engines into small airframe strong enough for deck use is trading power for safety.

I think that Hornet is overall better balanced aircraft than Fulcrum. Fulcrum was not even chosen by Soviet Navy for carrier use - mainly because of non-existing combat range.

For optimum performance/range/payload only one engine is required for plane with weight from 10-16 tons.

And F-16 and F-18 arent directly comparable, because Hornets airframe strenght is something that Vipers can dream about. Viper will collapse after one deck landing. Strenght need materials, materials add weight, more weight mean less fuel, less fuel means less power and range.

How many hours aistrip use Hornet lasts? Not less than 7,000. How many Viper?

Case with carrier-based aircraft for landbase use was well proven with Phantom - German one's are all well over 7000 hours and will fly up to 2012 (it means add another 1200 hours).

And those planes were never made to combat each other (meeting even foreign F-16 and Navy's F-18 is very unlikely), but to combat Soviet Fulcrums, Floggers, Flankers and Fencers. They would problably be good at this and americans would dominate this combat, no doubt.

Many countries have preferred Hornet to Viper - Canada, Finland, Austria, Portugal, Australia. Why?

You tell him INO!

Never tell a pilot you know more about his plane than he does. Laughing

HunterKiller wrote:

Hehh, Hornet with power like F-16 will be another Fulcrum - good power, but no range and funny small payload.

Putting 2 engines into small airframe strong enough for deck use is trading power for safety.

I think that Hornet is overall better balanced aircraft than Fulcrum. Fulcrum was not even chosen by Soviet Navy for carrier use - mainly because of non-existing combat range.

For optimum performance/range/payload only one engine is required for plane with weight from 10-16 tons.

And F-16 and F-18 arent directly comparable, because Hornets airframe strenght is something that Vipers can dream about. Viper will collapse after one deck landing. Strenght need materials, materials add weight, more weight mean less fuel, less fuel means less power and range.

How many hours aistrip use Hornet lasts? Not less than 7,000. How many Viper?

Case with carrier-based aircraft for landbase use was well proven with Phantom - German one's are all well over 7000 hours and will fly up to 2012 (it means add another 1200 hours).

And those planes were never made to combat each other (meeting even foreign F-16 and Navy's F-18 is very unlikely), but to combat Soviet Fulcrums, Floggers, Flankers and Fencers. They would problably be good at this and americans would dominate this combat, no doubt.

Many countries have preferred Hornet to Viper - Canada, Finland, Austria, Portugal, Australia. Why?

Don't forget, the countriess you mentioned above are not "war countires', The last time these countries went to war was probabley WW2, korean or vietnam. But alot of airforces do perfer the viper over hornet, some of those countries are also "war countires" like pakistan which was at war in 1999 or 1971(for air war). Counrties like turkey and grece also have f-16. Agreed that the hornet has the strenght the viper can only dream off, but the viper has the kill record, sales, mounverabilty etc the horent can only dream off!1

Also agreed that the hornet has the strenght the viper can only dream off, but then again, when was the last time you saw a viper on a aircraft carrier.

Here is the big thing. How many countries need a plane that can land on a carrier like ours and need two engines (safety) for blue water ops? The 18's are made for carrier use. 16's are a great platform as well. They were made for land use. Both great planes but you must look at what and where there use is. Just think, the engineers can build a plane like the Rhino, ie heavier airframe, gear, etc.. for sea use, and still have the performance. 18's can take a beating (repeated traps and cat shots) and perform for many years. Comparing these airplanes isnt like apples and oranges. But these platforms aren't the same. Hope I didn't confuse anyone.

HunterKiller wrote:

Quote:

Many countries have preferred Hornet to Viper - Canada, Finland, Austria, Portugal, Australia.

Austria chose the Eurofighter Typhoon to replace its F-5s, which in turn replaced their Saab J35. So no Hornet or Viper there.
Portugal has F-16s.

RoAF wrote:

HunterKiller wrote:

Quote:

Many countries have preferred Hornet to Viper - Canada, Finland, Austria, Portugal, Australia.

Austria chose the Eurofighter Typhoon to replace its F-5s, which in turn replaced their Saab J35. So no Hornet or Viper there.
Portugal has F-16s.

Exactly. Canada and Australia? Lots of desolate land mass with nowhere to land should you flame out. Twin-engined fighter perfect for them, even if Australia is not going for the F-35. Finland similar problem. Although smaller, it is sparsely populated and sparsely developed. Again, a twin-engined thing.

JCSVT wrote:

You tell him INO!

Never tell a pilot you know more about his plane than he does. Laughing

Your credulity amazes. What are you, a toddler?

INO wrote:

Ohhh that exercise. Thats the one that all Naval Aviators learn in Navy flight school. I just realized that I got robbed in my training in Pensacola, Corpus, Meridian and Virginia Beach. I guess that I'm not a real fighter pilot after all. D@mn, I guess I should have been reading my Jane's subscription instead of Natops, SOP's, Tacmans and TopGun. Rolling Eyes

Would you like to spew a few more acronyms to convince us once and for all that you really are who you say you are? Oooh, Natops, SOP's, Tacmans - gee, wizz, he must be a fighter pilot! You know what you have to do to prove who you say you are to those of us who doubt you and in the process make us all look like a bunch of idiots. But of course you won't do it, because you can't, and doubts about your identity will persist.

idesof wrote:

INO wrote:

Ohhh that exercise. Thats the one that all Naval Aviators learn in Navy flight school. I just realized that I got robbed in my training in Pensacola, Corpus, Meridian and Virginia Beach. I guess that I'm not a real fighter pilot after all. D@mn, I guess I should have been reading my Jane's subscription instead of Natops, SOP's, Tacmans and TopGun. Rolling Eyes

Would you like to spew a few more acronyms to convince us once and for all that you really are who you say you are? Oooh, Natops, SOP's, Tacmans - gee, wizz, he must be a fighter pilot! You know what you have to do to prove who you say you are to those of us who doubt you and in the process make us all look like a bunch of idiots. But of course you won't do it, because you can't, and doubts about your identity will persist.

He's on Airwarriors.com a Navy/Marine Aviation site full of real deal, no-sh*t, one and two anchor winged aviators. They routinely go through and find the BS filled, sack faced, wanna-be's and expose them for who they are. Ino is the real deal, same as TurnandBurn55, Smirroso, and Guppygoshawk. I can assure you of that, who do you think link them over to the little bug bashing threads Wink

Idesof,

Ok smart guy its put up or shut up time. If you are so sure that I am not a Rhino driver, then put up some $$. I would love to take your money but can't as that would be bad form. However, I want you to put up your next month of Social Security or 1/2 months pay if you are still working, to a worth while cause. I say you donate said sum 50/50 to F-16.net and Airwarriors.com. Airwarriors is a site that helps guys on the street become naval aviators. It answers all types of questions and gives guys in the pipeline a place to talk shop in some private forums. It also is a place that busts frauds who say that they are Naval Aviators. I am sure the webmasters of these two sites could use the money. Help keep the sites up and running so you can call me a fraud and liar some more. So what say you?

If not, you can just make a very public apology here and now and we can let this drop. Your choice.

It`s ONNNNNNNN NOW!!!!!!!! I must say this thread makes for some entertaining reading, a real soap opera! Laughing

I understand the sentiments but gentlemen, please!!!!!!

F16 versus F18 is all about the pilot,
next week, a detachment of my sqn will go to Swiss where we will fly our Belgian F16A MLU against some swiss F18's, so I will reply over 2weeks

Forum: F-16 versus XYZ

F-16 Viper versus F-18 Hornet