Forum: F-16 versus XYZ

Forum Veteran Joined: Nov 07, 2003 - 09:12 PM Posts: 901

calhoun wrote:

Yah, I know. I was just curious about what peoples opinions were.

hi calhoun, given your working experiences on both the platforms and first hand accounts from the flier boys, I would say, our opinion is... not important.

Welcome aboard,

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calhoun,

Quote:

Negative. With the EMCON (emission control) switch in active, radar transmits and is detectable just like any other aircraft.

The radar is manufactured in a way that the emissions don't be detected, that's what I know when I read AFM, and on the net and saw on the discovery, the USAF didn't say how is this achieved but it is achieved, am I right habu2,?

By definition any emission is detectable. Maybe not easily detectable, but it is there nonetheless. It is the difference between "there he is!" and "what was that?"

Sorry, can't be more specific than that.

Maybe I should have been a bit more specific. Yes it is detectable, just not easily. Habu's point was completely correct

Who's got the AWACS on his side? If the Raptor has the E-3 than the Vipers are toast. Shocked

The Raptor can close to launch range before he is detected. (It can use off board missile guidance after all, but can it use the AWACS radar to shoot?) In any case he would only have to illuminate the Vipers just long enough to launch his birds and then turn afterburner and outrun 'em. If the Vipers have the big radar at their back than the Raptor is grass and we all know what the Vipers are Twisted Evil

provided of course they can catch him Evil or Very Mad

Eagle wrote:

Who's got the AWACS on his side? If the Raptor has the E-3 than the Vipers are toast. Shocked

The Raptor can close to launch range before he is detected. (It can use off board missile guidance after all, but can it use the AWACS radar to shoot?) In any case he would only have to illuminate the Vipers just long enough to launch his birds and then turn afterburner and outrun 'em. If the Vipers have the big radar at their back than the Raptor is grass and we all know what the Vipers are Twisted Evil

provided of course they can catch him Evil or Very Mad

Unfortunately you are a bit incorrect. E-3's can't paint a Raptor unless a) they close to within a certain undisclosed range b) Raptor is flying aero only (no coatings). It could possibly use the AWACS radar to fire off of if the AWACS added the Raptors Intra Flight Data Link (sorta like Link16 just a lot better). The Raptor wouldnt have to light burner to out run a 16 either Wink

The F-16s don't stand a chance even with awacs support. The raptor doesn't even need its radar to shoot a missile. The ALR-94 can plot the positions of -16s with their own radar emissions. The only way the f-16s can survive is if they keep their radars turned off.

Also, are we talking about a long range engagement or closer??

Runningman wrote:

...

Also, are we talking about a long range engagement or closer??

I think both , but head to head or sneaking up from behind ?

Why are there so many variations on air-to-air combat... Rolling Eyes

Getting precise position out of a bearing only (there is simply no possibility to measure range precisely enough) sensor is pretty much impossible.

A airplane is not large enough to be able to triangulate emissions properly either.

I also wonder were many here got their info about the Raptors radra from?

I have to concluse some live in fantasy land and think what they make up in their minds is reality.

Bottom line is walk softly and carry a big stick!

Purplehaze

hansundfranz wrote:

Getting precise position out of a bearing only (there is simply no possibility to measure range precisely enough) sensor is pretty much impossible.

A airplane is not large enough to be able to triangulate emissions properly either.

I also wonder were many here got their info about the Raptors radra from?

I have to concluse some live in fantasy land and think what they make up in their minds is reality.

"Superfighters: The next generation of combat aircraft" AIRtime Publishing.
"The ALR-94 is a passive receiver system having greater capabilities than simple radar warning receivers fitted to most fighters. It features multiple antennas covering several bands and can detect sidelobes as well as main lobes and accurately locate and track any emitting [Link pending approval] ALR-94 can track in real time high priority emitters, like fighter aircraft at close range and in this [Link pending approval] enemy aircraft's radar might provide the ALR-94 with nearly all of the information necessary to launch an [Link pending approval] would make the amraam act more like an anti-radiation AAM."

hansundfranz, I can quote you about 5 more sources if youd like.
I don't live in a fantasy land; I own a lot of aviation books. What can I say--i'm an aviation fan.

btw Using FDL, two raptors can triangulate enemy aircraft at BVR using the ALR-94 and without radar. I can quote this too, if youd like.

Runningman, so then we know that it can fire the AMRAAM without using its radar, but it still can't guide it without emitting an detectable signal. On the other hand the Vipers will get much less warning as they will be clueless until the AMRAAM's go active, which, as I said before would create a fair bit of confusion and panic, and even the odd mid air collision.

Exactly

Then the next question is how many Vipers survives the initial surprise attack. At this stage the Vipers obviously are clued in to the presence of an unfriendly, but will need to find him, which may be easier said than done. I guess in most cases the Raptor may just vanish, as he has used his main advantage, and probably have accomplished his main goal, and the remaining Vipers will most likely RTB to lick its wounds.

On the other hand the Vipers may be guided by ground controllers or an AWACS that in both cases enables them to not emit any detectable radiation as well. Then the targeting of the Vipers gets a little harder. It would be unlikely that the Vipers would not be aware of the potential presence of a Rapor and will plan and execute their mission accordingly

hansundfranz wrote:

Getting precise position out of a bearing only (there is simply no possibility to measure range precisely enough) sensor is pretty much impossible.

A airplane is not large enough to be able to triangulate emissions properly either.

I also wonder were many here got their info about the Raptors radra from?

I have to concluse some live in fantasy land and think what they make up in their minds is reality.

ALR-94 DOES triangulate range, bearing, altitude, etc etc, based on recieved emissions. I also acquired most of this info by working the F/A-22 for the past few years.

Forum: F-16 versus XYZ

Four F-16s vs one F/A-22