Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

Hang in there everyone. The tooling for the F-22 is being preserved. There MAY be hope for the production line yet.

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Just keep Dick Cheney away from the tooling. You know what he did to the F-14 tools.
I agree all 750 F-22s should have been built along with the 132 B-2s, the 618 NATFs, 858 ATAs and the 400 Air Force versions of the ATA(A-12). Aren't you glad we took the peace dividend instead? Evil or Very Mad

M1 Abrams, F16, M2 Bradleys, F18s forever, because of the "less dangerous" post Cold War world." Thanks Libs. Sad

I don't think its necessary to keep a 700-Raptor fleet, but 183 is barely enough.

It really baffles me why DOD are so stubborn, the F-35 program is full of problems and there are alternatives, such as X-47. What's your alternatives to F-22?

What was the actual number built? I've read 187, 196 and now 183.

bruant328 wrote:

Just keep Dick Cheney away from the tooling. You know what he did to the F-14 tools.
I agree all 750 F-22s should have been built along with the 132 B-2s, the 618 NATFs, 858 ATAs and the 400 Air Force versions of the ATA(A-12). Aren't you glad we took the peace dividend instead? Evil or Very Mad

M1 Abrams, F16, M2 Bradleys, F18s forever, because of the "less dangerous" post Cold War world." Thanks Libs. Sad

Right. Where will you get the money to pay for all that? More foreign loans?

sewerrat wrote:

I'm more concerned that we closed down our manned space programs than I am about the F-22 being cut short.

...

With the space program, its been a long, long time since anyone has designed and built and flown any manned spacecraft. That's very disturbing.

I TOTALLY AGREE!!!! We need advancement of our own, not just technological. We need to move on.

Best regards,
TangoShadow.

tangoshadow wrote:

sewerrat wrote:

I'm more concerned that we closed down our manned space programs than I am about the F-22 being cut short.

...

With the space program, its been a long, long time since anyone has designed and built and flown any manned spacecraft. That's very disturbing.

I TOTALLY AGREE!!!! We need advancement of our own, not just technological. We need to move on.

Best regards,
TangoShadow.

The fact that we can't continue F-22 production to replace the F-15C/D one-for-one and manned spaced flight is troubling.

"Our commitment to this aircraft is underscored by the 6 and-a half billion dollars... to upgrade the existing F-22 fleet to be fully mission-capable."

The Raptor program is not stopping. It's just getting started. Why in less than a decade I suspect they'll finally be ready for the next war.

Maybe we can also invest in variable cycle engine technologies to ensure the future of propulsion technologies to go along with those Raptors.

A bit more On Topic

Variable cycle would be nice, but the current engines are already pushing the Raptors fast enough to wreak havoc on its skins. I think the Raptors can first use some skin improvements, seeing that RAM technology will become increasingly durable and advanced, and to counter the rapidly evolving SAMs.

The F-22 is getting improvements in its stealthiness, from the F-35 "Screeching Baby Seal".

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2011/ ... s-040611w/

When the last Raptor retires (in the 2030s), it will retire as a far far more capable aircraft than the first one that was declared "mission ready" and it will cost quite a bit to get there.

After enjoying my Christmas and New Years Eve, I see that there is a lot of off topic stuff here. Those off topic posts were deleted and I think you'll see that the posts in this topic now flows much better as a result.

I don't mind a political statement here or there as long as it is relevant to the TOPIC at hand.

Bottom line: stay on topic folks.

disconnectedradical wrote:

A bit more On Topic

Variable cycle would be nice, but the current engines are already pushing the Raptors fast enough to wreak havoc on its skins. I think the Raptors can first use some skin improvements, seeing that RAM technology will become increasingly durable and advanced, and to counter the rapidly evolving SAMs.

Thankfully we have the F-35's RAM technologies to rely on. It's more rugged and easier to maintain. As hcobb posted there's no need to worry about that. There was considerable evolution in the F-15 and F-16 airframes over time since they both first rolled out so why should the F-22 and F-35 combo be any different?

I'm just hoping the F-120 makes a comeback of some sort. If not the F-120 then something derived from it. That would increase the efficiency of the F-22 in the high-altitude, high thrust regime and supercruise and top speed performance would go off the charts.

That being said there might still be some issues with thermal stresses on the airframe especially on the nose of the aircraft as well as the leading edge of the wings (given the inherent existence of flow stagnation points at those areas) as well as the usual aerodynamic heating from skin friction on the wetted area. These issues plagued the MiG-25 when it tried to enter the mach 3+ regime and I don't know how well the F-22's fixed geometry inlets can handle such substantial changes in top speed.

I'm aware the F-22 isn't a MiG materials wise but I don't want to push the limit of RAM just yet by trying to take the aircraft to Mach 3.

Wink

Enjoyed the video. I got to work with many of those featured on the assembly and flight line as well as program management and had a great time with the program. Overall a wonderful aircraft that will keep getting better with the planned improvements and additional capabilities. Yes, we should have built all of them as originally planned to help keep the unit cost down and have enough capability to quickly deploy where necessary but maybe it can re-start some day.

Once a program is approved you need to build all of them as fast as possible to keep the unit price down.

I got to work with a lot of the guys in the video. It was a very good team on both the Gov and contractor side.

Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

The last Raptor - no. 10-4195