Forum: F-35 Avionics

Spud- thanks for the follow-up on Typhoon's MAW system, I was actually thinking the tranche 3 might have the radar based MAW (optimal for WVR combat once the opponent knows you're there anyway). Well, that would evidently still be a helluva capability then, whereas the pilot won't see a visual jet per se, but would still apparently see the precise range and speed and direction of a particular target around his aircraft - friend or foe - night or day and in all-weather. Note the radar MAW is reportedly very precise in this regard in providing accurate range and speed data.

So I would have to honestly say that until F-35s HMD is mature and operational, this HMSS + Eurofighter combo might in fact be the top helmet going today; when considering the incorporated night vision aides and apparent visual feed from the FLIR as well... + voice commands.

And p.s. @ munny - that's an interesting concept you've suggested there with respect to future pilot seating possibilities. I've actually pondered this very 'further reclined' seating potential for a future F-16 derivative also - exploiting big screen displays, panoramic night/day vision and enhanced HMD. I imagine they might be able to better stealth/protect the cockpits with aerodynamic composite shells too?

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There is a reason that they are dumping a radar-based MAW and going IR (and why nobody else uses it). btw, they are not AESA based so can only detect sector (right, left, rear), range and speed (to determine time-to-impact).

It's a HUGE Shoot Me sign to anyone with a descent EWS (hence the saying, "those who emit, die")

As I said... they would seem to be more effective once WVR and the opponent already knows you're there. Not to knock the helmet's growth potential and rather impressive interim capabilities at least. imho.

SpudmanWP wrote:

There is a reason that they are dumping a radar-based MAW and going IR (and why nobody else uses it). btw, they are not AESA based so can only detect sector (right, left, rear), range and speed (to determine time-to-impact).

It's a HUGE Shoot Me sign to anyone with a descent EWS (hence the saying, "those who emit, die")

Yeah i've been saying just that for as long as they've been saying they're going to be fitting an AESA, so make that about the last decade. Why on earth ever went with that MAWS I will never know.

Why would it be more effective in WVR? It only shows which of the three sensors picked up the inbound (front right/left or rear aspect). The EODAS at least can pinpoint with precision exactly where it is coming from (and track all WVR planes, AAA, etc).

You are also assuming you survive to the WVR stage.

LinkF16SimDude wrote:

It replaces the HUD

Conan wrote:

The JSF helmet is a step beyond those capabilities though, including them AND replacing the HUD AND streaming real time night vision and IR footage from EOTS and EODAS

What is normally shown on the HUD but not in the helmet, in other combat aircraft?

geogen wrote:

Fair points, both. To answer the question, why would I say that the HMSS is the 'best'?? Um... because the Eurofighter website says: 'Nothing comes close'?? Cheers

Nice...

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Seriously though, I'd have to conjecture that besides the Helmet's verbal command functions, the suggested 'night vision aides' incorporated into the HMSS, as opposed to a separate NVG apparatus(?) might potentially be considered somewhat of a plus going for it, as well as the apparent streaming FLIR imagery provisions incorporated into the helmet?

The voice command system as I understand it is a cockpit function, not specific helmet functionality, but I could be wrong on that. I'd like to know just how well that voice capability works in the context of a noisy jet fighter cockpit too? I know JSF has some sort of voice command system as well, but they seem less enthused about it then Eurofighter does.

I've got voice command facility on my iPhone 4 too but even in a quiet room, it sucks...

Very Happy

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And I admit I'm not up on my helmets, but I'm interested in the SAAB gear so appreciate that heads up too.

No dramas. The HMS market is becoming quite crowded.

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Regardless, this whole sector of evolving HMD technology, with incorporated SA capabilities et al, will surely accelerate rapidly worldwide over the next 10 yrs and get very competitive... 2 cents.

If it isn't already.

With the news out now that yes, BAE systems (the maker of Eurofighter's HMSS helmet) is being selected by Lockheed Martin to supply the next phase HMD helmet for the F-35 Program (NVG HMD), I'd request that this thread possibly be renamed to something like F-35 HMD vs the field?

Anyway, congrats to BAE systems and congrats to the F-35 program who will finally receive this 'next-phase' HMD helmet; the upgradeable 'NVG HMD'.

Sounds like a win-win for the F-35 Program to finally get a reliable helmet - phasing in the technology as it matures for this obviously complex system and for BAE to further demonstrate and advance their technological skill in developing HMD systems.

With respect to Helmet functions, I'm curious about the NVG HMD's disclosed 'Optical Head tracking' device... Is this something incorporated on the JHMCS too, as well as the Typhoon's HMSS?

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/lockhe ... 2011-10-10

Hopefully this will give VSI some breathing room to fix its issues.

geogen, this so called news was reported here but it was a bit bewildering because BAE was not mentioned at that time 11 Sep 2011:

F-35 NVG based HMD Selection Youse heard it here furst on FsixteenNet: Twisted Evil

http://www.f-16.net/index.php?name=PNph ... mds#203618

"BAE Systems F-35 Night Vision Goggle Helmet Mounted Display with Q-SIGHT(TM) Waveguide Display Technology (Photo: BAE Systems)"

http://mms.businesswire.com/bwapps/medi ... &vid=5

Last edited by SpudmanWP on Oct 10, 2011 - 09:03 PM; edited 1 time in total

Thanks for the larger pic. It is easy to see that this is inferior (in capabilities) than the VSI rig (on displays info in a small monocle). Hope VSI gets it's s**t together soon.

SWP: DITTO & Fewer Ad Page here: http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/2 ... upply-F-35

Another angle on the OLD Very Happy

Story here:

BAE Systems to develop a new helmet Display for the F-35 11 Oct 2011

http://defense-update.com/20111011_qsig ... +Update%29

"BAE Systems has been selected by Lockheed Martin to supply a Helmet Mounted Display (HMD) system for the F-35 during the next phase of its development. The new HMD incorporate the Q-Sight waveguide display and feature detachable Night Vision Goggles for night operations. BAE Systems will begin delivery of test assets in 2012 to support the F-35 development and integration laboratories, flight simulators, and flight-test platforms.

The new HMD will also incorporate an optical Head Tracking System for precise weapons delivery and carrier and land-based operations. The accurate optical head trackers allow the system to achieve Head-Up Display (HUD) accuracies and Primary Flight Reference criteria with free moving the helmet display....

...Lockheed Martin, the prime contractor opted to reduce the risk by opting for a near term solution based on a conventional off the shelf technology and the use of NVG when required. According to Lockheed martin, the development of the original VSI HMDS will continue under a new contract recently issued. To further mitigate risk, the alternative HMDS is not required to have binocular symbology or to display image data from the F-35’s DAS. These will be added if the BAE helmet becomes the baseline system, Lockheed Martin said."

BEST TO READ ALL THE ARTICLE AT THE JUMP FOR CLARIFICATION OF WHAT IS HAPPENING.

Just as an aside, the Marines' new AH-1Z uses the Thales TopOwl HMD/SS, probably the most advanced rotorcraft system extant. However, I believe I read that based on practical tests, and aircrew preferences, they've decided that they will use conventional NVGs in conjunction with it, rather than using the helmet's own night vision system..

Sometimes the latest tech may not always be the best tech.

TopOwl PDF

https://www1.online.thalesgroup.com/cus ... owl_en.pdf

Forum: F-35 Avionics

Helmet-mounted displays