Forum: Modern Military Aircraft

Point is this.

Is it better to see them and try to cover them with some sort of 'blocker' or RAM? Or hide them all together?

Better to hide them all together!
(Less upstream parts/coatings to ice up or ingest any how)

You're just patching a legacy design do reduce RCS; so again the T-50 isn't truly stealth "by design"; if it were you'd never see a bit of the compressor faces.

Two Cents

TEG

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The Russian design houses like to piggyback their new designs on top of old designs. The T-50 is a stopgap design to fill the transition to the future. They supposedly have another design in the works, too, which may explain their reluctance to purchase the Su-30 in large quantities these past 15 years, nor too many of the Su-35 design in the short term. I have a feeling the T-50 took that long to get over budget hurdles and was probably laid out on paper over twenty years ago.

madrat wrote:

The Russian design houses like to piggyback their new designs on top of old designs. The T-50 is a stopgap design to fill the transition to the future. They supposedly have another design in the works, too, which may explain their reluctance to purchase the Su-30 in large quantities these past 15 years, nor too many of the Su-35 design in the short term. I have a feeling the T-50 took that long to get over budget hurdles and was probably laid out on paper over twenty years ago.

USSR invested in MiG-1.42/1.44, that would be next gen soviet heavy fighter. When it was finally ready for testing it was too expensive for Yeltsin's Russia. It is same reason why they didnt bought Su-30 (or old Su-35) nor they didnt upgraded Su-27 fleet. They couldnt afford them. That was time when they grounded MiG-31 fleet which was one of most critical part of their air defense.

PAK-FA design was created in early(maybe in mid) 2000' when Russia at last could invest in their ATF program.

What is this nonsens.
The Pak-Fa program was official started in 2002.. or was it 2003?

Anyway, which other design are you talkin about Madrat?
I havent heard anything, u must be mistaken.
Do you really think Sukhoi aim at 500-600 aircraft build, if it is a stopgap and use billions of $.
The Indian FGFA will be a two seater T-50, nothing more nothing less.
What about new missiles development to fit the internal W-bays?
The Russian next gen fighter is not even planned at this stage.. The next program in line are the Pak-Da bomber program.

To date I only count 2 (each) T-50s flying in a test/experimental phase only. (Not including airshow demos)

Didn't the US/NASA/Grumman fly 2 (each) X-29s from 1984-1991 for experimental purposes?

How many FSW active combat service fighters does the USAF, USN or USMC use today? (zero my last count)

Didn't Sukhoi produce 4 (each) the Su-47s? and how many are in active combat service today? (zero my last count)

Didn't MiG produce 2 (each) MiG 1.42/1.44s in the 1990s and fly in the 2000s? how many are in active combat service today? (zero my last count)

How many YF-22s did the USAF/LM produce in the 1990s? How many are in active F-22s combat service today? (169 my last count)

Until i see more than a 'fighter wing's worth' of T-50 aircraft patrolling airspace somewhere in the world, they're nothing more than airshow/technological demonstrators.

I rest my drunken case.... TEG

There are four T-50 airframes produced at this time. Two are performing test flight, one airframe for static futige test. The last airframe is the first T-50 that only did the high-speed taxi run at KnAAPO airbase.
It is now beeing converted and used for a systems develping platform.

There are further two T-50-03 and 04 on the asembly line, words are the 03 will be out before new year..

The Pak-Fa program is in a fairly good state at this point, it has not run into any delays as of yet.. And the nr# of test flight are not any worse than other new fighter program at this point.
A very aggresive move by sukhoi to put two T-50 on flight display at Maks 2011. I mean its way early for this. The first flight of the PAK FA took place on January 29, 2010 in Komsomolsk-on-Amur. Acceptance tests of the prototype were completed at the end of March 2010.
Moscow, March 3 2011. First flight of the 2nd prototype of the fifth generation aviation complex (PAK FA) took place in Komsomolsk - on - Amur

As for official:
http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/news/company/?id=3944

As for the old Su-47 and Mig. No need for comparison, different times..

There was only one Su-47 produced. IT is still flying, used as a test platform on Internal W-bay in the Pak-Fa program.

The sorry Mig-1.42, there was one completed airframe, the one that did test flight.

Remember this was during the drunken Yeltsin years.. No money, only Vodka. Beer

haavarla wrote:

There are four T-50 airframes produced at this time.

So they claim anyway. Until I see proof (which isn't going to happen any time soon) i'm not at all convinced.

Of course. Hold the line while i call up Sukhoi and demand further proof of this.
If it is official, then its all lies?

http://www.knaapo.ru/eng/news/index.wbp ... 97AFA&

This is long before second T-50-02 first flight. It clearly state 3 airframes!

Is it so unreasonable to believe KnAAPO have delivered four airframe so far.
In a development of ANY new fighters, the first thing you need is Static for futige test and ground systems test airframes.
The Su-34 had two static ground airframes as well. I think it is a logical proceedure in such programs.

haavarla wrote:

Is it so unreasonable to believe KnAAPO have delivered four airframe so far.

Given the speed of production from the Russian aircraft industry these past 10 years or so it's not really unreasonable to be suspicious of the claim in question.

There was an image of the T-50-0 static test frame and the T-50KNS was the first aircraft to be photographed/filmed. The two flying examples are well documented as well! The naysayers better inform them self! Russia is in a much better shape today and there are more aircraft rolling of the production lines these days! But live in your delusional parallel world believing that it is the 90s.

The technology of the face of the engine showing directly has improved. Remember the losing entrant for the JSF program -the XF-32? The engine face showed directly also.

Whoa-ugly.

Yup..
Try to lower the angle of that YF-32 pic just a little bit:)
And while your at it, the T-50 Intake compressor was taken directly in front of it a few meters away. How about you back off 50m and senter the camera on the nose radome?
Lets see it..?

Notic the diagonal shape in those T-50 intakes, why is it not so in this Su-27/T-50 comparison?

it also looks like there is a slight obstruction on the two inside/senter airduct walls. And again on the other airduct wall comes the MLG compartment that also obstruct a little.
And the forward comp fans are sentered just a tad inward due to the engine housing are not straight, but infact point outwards from eachother. Which put those forward fans more to the senter of the aircraft.
The devil is in the details;)
That comparison do not show anything of this..

avon1944 wrote:

The technology of the face of the engine showing directly has improved. Remember the losing entrant for the JSF program -the XF-32? The engine face showed directly also.

You think maybe it lost due to RCS considerations too? (duh?)

TEG

Forum: Modern Military Aircraft

T-50/Pak-fa intake fan blades showing. Stealthy or not?