Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

[quote="Scorpion82"]

Scorpion82 wrote:

Really? According which data? And could you elaborate?

I merely stated my opinion for posterity. There was no argumentation. Obviously I am not going to publish information that doesn't belong here. It's possible that the Russians and their partners have made great strides in seeker power density and/or dropping an infrared seeker in the basket BVR range. I will be very surprised though if true against F-22 signatures. My opinion just like you hold some.

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rkap wrote:

Let's go back in time

Let's get back on track.

Although I think their are a few mistakes or things missing in your post (The US deployed Sabre's, not Super Sabre's against the Mig-15. The US military kill ratio went up dramatically by the end of the Vietnam war by improving training. The Mig-25 could fly very fast very hi but was not a good dogfighter. Israel shot down Syrian Mig-29's, not just 21s & 23s and the Iranians shot down a lot of Mig-23s using F-4s.) I don't think anyone would disagree with what I assume your main point is, that the USSR made a lot of good planes during the cold war. I agree.

But that is not as relevant to the the T-50 vs F-22/F-35 argument as you seem to think. The USSR of the Cold War is dead and gone. Kaput. The new Russia had an economy that cratered and took a long time to recover to it's current creaky state. The Russian Aerospace industry was put on life support for ~15 years and it is not clear that it has really recovered.

Skepticism about whether the T-50 is all that they claim it to be is legitimate. It might have some impressive elements, but it is not at all clear how long it will take them to get everything to work, whether it will work as advertised, and will they be able to produce it in numbers. It might just languish as a few prototypes for the next 10 years, be quietly forgotten, and then replaced by the next "RUSSIA STRONG" propaganda fantasy-weapon.

When Putin talks about building them for 10 Million a pop that makes me think that people in the upper ranks of the Russian Government might be living in a complete fantasy land about this. Enough money is available to keep the project alive but not nearly enough to complete it.

Let's get this back on topic. No need for "going back in time" for a history lesson here and if you want to talk about the T-50 exclusively, then go to the "Modern Military Aircraft Forum".

How is a test fighter (T-50) going to defeat the F-22? Did this test Aircraft even fire a cannon at least?
Could this plane even beat an F-15 especially as bad as the F-22 has beaten the F-15 Question

The only thing I know Russia so far does is bash the F-22 to make them feel all warm and fuzzy inside and then when there pilots start dropping like Honeybees being destroyed by Giant Japanese Hornets how crappy it is.

Quote:

[quote="wrightwing"
The F-15 and F-16 have some pretty impressive A2A records, so I'd say the earlier examples that you mentioned are less pertinent.

Agreed but there are no pertinent later events.
The point I was trying to make is virtually all F15 victories have been against 2nd or 3rd Generation Downgraded Aircraft in the hands of lesser airforces except for a few very early Mig29's in Yugoslavia.

Would the record be 100-1 if they had tried to attack downtown Moscow in say 1984 supported by F16's. I am certain with Mig31's and later Mig25's coming up to intercept with SU27's, Mig29's in support it would have been a different story.

Fortunately it looks as if we will never know - the F15 will never be tested against its equivalents.

rkap wrote:

Agreed but there are no pertinent later events.
The point I was trying to make is virtually all F15 victories have been against 2nd or 3rd Generation Downgraded Aircraft in the hands of lesser airforces except for a few very early Mig29's in Yugoslavia.

Would the record be 100-1 if they had tried to attack downtown Moscow in say 1984 supported by F16's. I am certain with Mig31's and later Mig25's coming up to intercept with SU27's, Mig29's in support it would have been a different story.

Fortunately it looks as if we will never know - the F15 will never be tested against its equivalents.

Perhaps not 100-1, but given the very rigid tactical constraints the Russian pilots had, and the technological superiority(not to mention the flight skills of western pilots vs. their counterparts with far fewer hours) the F-15 would've enjoyed a favorable exchange rate.

I agree. The Russians barely have any experience with their fighters and given the design of the F-15 and the weapons it used all being battle proven, the F-15 should be able to enjoy a pretty decent-sized loss exchange rate to the Su-27 and MiG-29. The F-15 was made to be able to utilize and regain energy quickly and effectively so in ACM with ace F-15 pilots the Su-27's would be toast. In the BVR regime I don't know how many R-77's there are in Russian service so I can't comment on that.

Locked because some participants cannot stay on topic. Might reopen at a later date.

Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

Can F-22A defeat the russian T-50