Forum: F-35 Armament, Stores and Tactics

Is not the U.S. developing a long range anti ship missile(LRASM) which could be designed to fit in the f-35 weapons bay?

F-16.net Sponsor

If it's long range then it does not need to be small enough to be internal to the F-35.

ASuW recent info here: F-35C ASuW Capabilities?

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-14737.html

Chasing Norway’s New Stealth Cruise Missile VIDEO

http://gizmodo.com/5843982/chasing-down ... se-missile
&
VIDEO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMowaZ3I ... r_embedded

"This is the Naval Strike Missile, Kongsberg's latest and greatest cruise missile, as it skims over the Pacific Ocean before tearing into its target on the far side of an island....

...The state-of-the-art missile weighs about 400 kg (880 lb) and has a range of 100 nautical miles, both along the coast and in the open ocean. It uses GPS, inertial and terrain reference systems to maintain its bearings....

...It's being developed as the basis for the Joint Strike Missile program to be carried aboard Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II "Joint Strike Fighters" when they enter service."

NSM at target (screengrab from video)

Was that an F-104 chase plane in the video?

Norway May Pull Out of JSF If No Missile Deal By Carlo Munoz : September 27, 2011

http://defense.aol.com/2011/09/27/norwa ... stry-says/

"Washington: Norway is threatening to delay its buy of F-35 Joint Strike Fighters if DoD decides not to support a new missile system built by one of the country's top defense firms.

Norwegian defense giant Kongsberg is pressuring the Pentagon to integrate its Joint Strike Missile for use on the F-35, indicating that Norway is ready to delay the fighter entirely if the weapon is not brought in....

...But before Norway, or any other country can field the missile, DoD must agree to partially finance the integration work needed to get the weapon to work with the fighter....

...With six months to go before the Norwegian Parliament decides whether to fully commit to the JSF buy, Kongsberg claims that time is running out for DoD to make a decision on the JSM.

If Norway's F-35s are delivered without a viable weapon to counter the surface warfare threats..."

MORE AT THE JUMP! Very Happy

Tried my best to translate this Norwegian article for you guys. A lot is at stake from a Norwegian point of view.

Hi stake game on F-35 aircraft

Will they or won't they? The voltage is high, both with Norwegian authorities and the Kongsberg weapons manufacturer. Kongsberg has a hypermodern weapon, a weapon that can ensure staggering revenues and hundreds of jobs.

And the United States is nowhere near to say whether they intend to buy it or not.

The weapon they are talking about, is a long-range missile that essentially is intended to terminate an enemy naval vessel. Norway wants the US to buy this missile, called the Joint Strike Missile (JSM) in order to use it on the new fighter aircraft — F-35 Lightning — that is under development by Lockheed Martin.

The Norwegian Government has decided that Norway will buy 56 such aircraft to replace the aging
F-16 aircraft. Four training jets are already ordered.

The question of whether the other 52 aircraft is to be ordered is left to until next year, in which the the Norwegian Parliament have to say a final "Yes" or "no" to the F-35.

Response deadline in March

Frustration on the Norwegian side is getting large. A prerequisite to buy American aircraft is that the purchase price will be covered by industrial agreements for Norwegian companies that can supply the equipment for aircraft. An agreement on purchase of JSM will stand for as much as one-third of the purchase price for the new fighter aircraft — around 25 billion dollars.

Bjorn Bjune, a Deputy Director of Kongsberg, has in the recent weeks gone far in requiring a rapid response from the United States, according to US Department of Defense media. If the U.SD does not answer, Norway has to postpone the desicion of whether to buy the F-35 – and perhaps start looking at other options.

– Bjune is misquoted, "said the Executive Vice President Harald Ånnestad, Kongsberg Defence Systems.

If this is the case, he (Bjone) is misquoted in various interviews, including one in the magazine "Inside the Air Force, where he set March 2012 as the deadline for a reply that Norway should be able to make an informed decision about buying the F-35.

Intense lobbying

There is no doubt that Kongsberg has stepped up the fight against the U.S defense companies to deliver this type of missiles to the new fighter plane. In the United States, the company has now three or four employees plus an unknown number of hired American consultants whose main task is to sell the JSM to US authorities.

"We are a small company in the American context, and there are powerful forces who want the Americans to buy American. But I am convinced that we have the best product. No one else can produce something better and cheaper, "says Ånnestad.

The American company Raytheon have developed a similar product which is also applicable for F-35, but say that this is Ånnestad "like comparing a Ferrari with a truck."

No sneakers

In the Norwegian Defense Ministry Secretary Roger Ingebrigtsen follow the development with excitement. The Norwegian Government recently gave in excess of one billion dollars to help develop the missile.

"It's very important to us that Kongsberg is selling this missile. Missiles must have customers. Someone needs to buy them, "he said.

He admits that the high unemployment rates in the United States can affect how easy or difficult it is for the U.S to buy equipment that is not "Made in the UNITED STATES."

– They have a lot of domestic political considerations. But I hope and believe that the technology will be critical. And there is where the JSM is best Ingebrigtsen says. And because it is the best, it will also end up on the US aircraft.

-Buy a proper suit, you will also have good shoes. And JSM are no sneakers, to put it that way.

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/article4243524.ece

I agree with Norway on this. The USA definitely should buy the Norwegian missile without hesitation. Our other aircraft-launched anti-ship missiles are older and just not as good. The only current one that is small enough and light enough for a Lightning to carry internally is the Harpoon (which might even be able to fit two per bay instead of one, with a custom adapter, although that hasn't been invented yet), but it doesn't have the Norwegian missile's guidance & control, range, or independent stealth. Some others might have a bigger warhead and/or longer range than a Harpoon, but none have the guidance & control or stealth, and any but Harpoons can't be carried internally, which not only limits quantity but also increases radar signature and drag. With the Norwegian one it isn't a much of a sacrifice to carry some on the outside, which, combined with the internal ones, increases the reduced-observability load limit to six instead of just the two of an ordinary missile on the inside.

An American company probably could come up with something comparable, but if an ally has already done it for us, why bother? I've been saying for years we should back off from some aspects of this business and let/make allies do more of the work and pick up more of the tab. In this case we've got one that not only has the ability but also actually wants to, which often isn't the case. It would be idiotic of us to fail to take them up on it just so we can either waste money & time working on an alternative or end up with no modern air-to-ship weapons.

This is not a reliable report from Aftenposten. The US would require the production line to be on US soil regardless.

It is the integration Kongsberg is seeking assurances for. That would provide a base of customers, licensing production to some (e.g. USA) and exporting to others (Spain, Italy, UK, Australia, etc.). Huge market over a long period.

The U.S has said all along that the partners have to earn work on the F-35 program to get in. Well, now there is a niche open, where Norway has a superior product to offer. The current administration here in Norway has taken a lot of criticism from the opposition regarding lack of offset deals in this program, and not to talk about the heat they took for dishing the Gripen from our brothers over the border. If the U.S does not let Norway into the program on this, I fear that this warning is not a bluff. The deal could be in real danger.

Lightndattic: Don't think so. Based on the couple of frames of the wingtip tank, it is most likely an F-5. Norway used its retired F-5's in testing of both missile profiles and as chase jets for the NSM.

tieu wrote:

Lightndattic: Don't think so. Based on the couple of frames of the wingtip tank, it is most likely an F-5. Norway used its retired F-5's in testing of both missile profiles and as chase jets for the NSM.

The test was done in California. This doesn't exclude the F-5 as the chase plane. Unlikely though.

Tieu is most likely right. The Norwegian F-5's were taken out of service in 1990, but some of the planes were later used in connection with the naval strike missile Naval Strike Missile program (NSM).

OK, I'll buy it. Very Happy

bumtish wrote:

tieu wrote:

Lightndattic: Don't think so. Based on the couple of frames of the wingtip tank, it is most likely an F-5. Norway used its retired F-5's in testing of both missile profiles and as chase jets for the NSM.

The test was done in California. This doesn't exclude the F-5 as the chase plane. Unlikely though.

Not sure if it was a Norwegian F-5, but here are som pictures of a couple Freedom Fighters:

http://flydb.net/northrop/F-5.gallery/pages/208f.html
http://flydb.net/northrop/F-5.gallery/pages/g.html

Take a look at the shape of the wing tanks and the placement of the fuel filler cap, and also the layout of the cocpit. Looks pretty much the same to me.

A little bit off topic, but Norway has two or three F-5's standing in a hangar at Fort Worth Alliance. They were supposed to be sold to an American flight school of some sort, but the Capitol would not approve the sale...

Forum: F-35 Armament, Stores and Tactics

The JSM missile for the F35