Forum: F-16 News

Don't guard/reserve units beat out active duty units in air defense and bombing competitions on a somewhat regular basis?

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discofishing wrote:

Don't guard/reserve units beat out active duty units in air defense and bombing competitions on a somewhat regular basis?

Nobody is talking about competence, merely equipment capabilities and where/how to use them. Nobody has even hinted that the guard isn't a spectacular performing force because it is.

deadseal wrote:

Plus dude, he was the one that had the power point presentation/ bullet paper ripping into my post, I can only respond in kind right? Block 50's going to daluth is dumb. and the WHOLE CAF thinks so. Don't tell me that daluth isn't sitting up their n the canadian border scratching their craniums and wondering how they got such a good deal. Politics man

It really was not a dumb move, sure for the guy sitting in Korea with Blk 40's it might not make sense but thats because your down in the weeds and not looking from the 30,000ft level. They are being put there for specific reasons.

I always like reading all the speculation on F-16.net on different topics and I think it makes for fun reading about what somebody thinks may or may not be happening. Unfortunatley for many people who read F-16.net and you know who you are, there are many things which just can't be posted on F-16.net for a variety of reasons of which I'm sure everybody who ever read a T.O. would know what I am talking about. Keep up the speculation, and I'll try to be as vague as possible when I have the correct answer...lol

Cheers,

ViperDude

[quote="AfterburnerDecalsScott"]

discofishing wrote:

Don't guard/reserve units beat out active duty units in air defense and bombing competitions on a somewhat regular basis?

Nobody is talking about competence, merely equipment capabilities and where/how to use them. Nobody has even hinted that the guard isn't a spectacular performing force because it is.[/quote

Actually the original poster was calling the competence and proficiency of the guard guys into question. Having been a guard guy for almost 19 years, I would put our boys up against your DMZ sitting active duty boys any day of the week.

ViperDude wrote:

deadseal wrote:

Plus dude, he was the one that had the power point presentation/ bullet paper ripping into my post, I can only respond in kind right? Block 50's going to daluth is dumb. and the WHOLE CAF thinks so. Don't tell me that daluth isn't sitting up their n the canadian border scratching their craniums and wondering how they got such a good deal. Politics man

It really was not a dumb move, sure for the guy sitting in Korea with Blk 40's it might not make sense but thats because your down in the weeds and not looking from the 30,000ft level. They are being put there for specific reasons.

I always like reading all the speculation on F-16.net on different topics and I think it makes for fun reading about what somebody thinks may or may not be happening. Unfortunatley for many people who read F-16.net and you know who you are, there are many things which just can't be posted on F-16.net for a variety of reasons of which I'm sure everybody who ever read a T.O. would know what I am talking about. Keep up the speculation, and I'll try to be as vague as possible when I have the correct answer...lol

Cheers,

ViperDude

Wow dude can you please tell me more about how awesome you are? It must be nice to give an answer and not have to back it up. Please leave your ego at the door. Give me one genuine reason why Daluth should get block 50's over an active duty unit that is in the fight. Oh and to the other dude about competitions....The Caf spends 4 months spinning up for the desert, 5 months deployed and then, 4 months trying to reconstitute. We don't have time to take our nice block 50's to the range and toss bdu-33's for quarters. Why will no one give a good answer to this question? and why will no one admit there are politics involved? Why is that taboo? I just don't get it.

deadseal wrote:

ViperDude wrote:

deadseal wrote:

Plus dude, he was the one that had the power point presentation/ bullet paper ripping into my post, I can only respond in kind right? Block 50's going to daluth is dumb. and the WHOLE CAF thinks so. Don't tell me that daluth isn't sitting up their n the canadian border scratching their craniums and wondering how they got such a good deal. Politics man

It really was not a dumb move, sure for the guy sitting in Korea with Blk 40's it might not make sense but thats because your down in the weeds and not looking from the 30,000ft level. They are being put there for specific reasons.

I always like reading all the speculation on F-16.net on different topics and I think it makes for fun reading about what somebody thinks may or may not be happening. Unfortunatley for many people who read F-16.net and you know who you are, there are many things which just can't be posted on F-16.net for a variety of reasons of which I'm sure everybody who ever read a T.O. would know what I am talking about. Keep up the speculation, and I'll try to be as vague as possible when I have the correct answer...lol

Cheers,

ViperDude

Wow dude can you please tell me more about how awesome you are? It must be nice to give an answer and not have to back it up. Please leave your ego at the door. Give me one genuine reason why Daluth should get block 50's over an active duty unit that is in the fight. Oh and to the other dude about competitions....The Caf spends 4 months spinning up for the desert, 5 months deployed and then, 4 months trying to reconstitute. We don't have time to take our nice block 50's to the range and toss bdu-33's for quarters. Why will no one give a good answer to this question? and why will no one admit there are politics involved? Why is that taboo? I just don't get it.

YES, it's all about politics folks and putting aircraft in the hands of capable crews. When was the last time an AF jet had to respond to anything in Germany. Last time I checked all the terror threats have been against targets on the homefront. Aren't the skies over the US important?

Politics ... change you can count on! Laughing

[quote="Elliboom"]

AfterburnerDecalsScott wrote:

discofishing wrote:

Don't guard/reserve units beat out active duty units in air defense and bombing competitions on a somewhat regular basis?

Nobody is talking about competence, merely equipment capabilities and where/how to use them. Nobody has even hinted that the guard isn't a spectacular performing force because it is.[/quote

Actually the original poster was calling the competence and proficiency of the guard guys into question. Having been a guard guy for almost 19 years, I would put our boys up against your DMZ sitting active duty boys any day of the week.

Right you are...I missed the initial "podunk fighter squadron" comment. The 148th is most certainly not "podunk" and I'd lay $$$ on that bet.

My thought is unless the 148th is going to specialize in SEAD (which I don't know) it seems like the Block 40s would be the way to go if they are going to retain their current mission. Just an equipment question.

Agreed that the Block 50 is supposed to be a SEAD jet, but in reality SEAD is only applicable the first days of any war. After SEAD has done their job then even the block 50's revert back to a more traditional role.

Elliboom wrote:

Agreed that the Block 50 is supposed to be a SEAD jet, but in reality SEAD is only applicable the first days of any war. After SEAD has done their job then even the block 50's revert back to a more traditional role.

Super....provided the 148th assumes SEAD specialty into their mission, which in fact they might, I think the concern is that having another SEAD squadron based in CONUS as opposed to someplace more prickly flying older equipment smacked of pure politics. I'm sure the 148th can adapt to flinging HARMs no sweat, its just going to be a while before they can get someplace that needs a pantload of HARMs flung asap. 2 squadrons of fiddys in PACAF, 2 in USAFE sounded like a good mix to me.

I hope it wasn't due to Franken's pressure, I really really do. As little knowledge as I have about what might be a good platform for the 148th to fly, I'm positive he has even less.

AfterburnerDecalsScott wrote:

Elliboom wrote:

Agreed that the Block 50 is supposed to be a SEAD jet, but in reality SEAD is only applicable the first days of any war. After SEAD has done their job then even the block 50's revert back to a more traditional role.

Super....provided the 148th assumes SEAD specialty into their mission, which in fact they might, I think the concern is that having another SEAD squadron based in CONUS as opposed to someplace more prickly

So it would make more sense to place all your 'top-O-the-line' F-16s just a few miles from a crackpot who has been working on intermediate range missiles and NEW-clear warheads? You think he knows he can't control the situation without his NEW-clear weapons?

Besides the ANG typically excels in 'special' areas of the USAF Total Force missions. Things that take lots of training, and specialization; (ISR, ATC, etc) things that take a stable, emplaced work force that doesn't 'rotate' in or out of different jobs. SEAD is a perfect match! Why train pilots, weapons, avionics, etc moving in/out of a forward location every 12-24 months when with the ANG you can train guys who've made a career at ONE PLACE and will likely never move? Some things that may have been noticed with one SEAD unit already in the ANG as compared to the USAF SEAD units.

Just some thoughts to chew on.

I agree that this decision may have been influenced in some part by politicians, but there are few reasons to NOT give Block 50s to the ANG, and lots of reasons TO do it.

Two Cents

TEG

Besides, in a few years N Korea will be flying T-50 PAK FA or J-XX (PAK-FENG?) LMAO

Just to add my two cents here...

Obviously this thread amuses me - there no sense in getting a heart ache because you want Block 50s to go Korea... now thats the biggest BS!

The ANG at McEntire had been training ACTIVE duty Block 50 pilots from all Misawa, Spang, and Shaw when they CCIPed the Block 50s. McEntire ANG squadron has deployed to both OEF and OIF and just recently represented the USAF in Jordan for Falcon Meet. Duluth F-16 squadron if I'm not mistaken was the first F-16 squadron to be based in Iraq. Sooner or later an ANG squadron was going to get "newer" jets. Active duty F-16 maintainers are being trained at the Vermont ANG.

The Block 50s will be the primary SEAD aircraft because of the certification training by pilots on the HTS pods that Block 50 squadrons have - they're primary mission is SEAD. The Block 40s primary mission is interdiction. You will find that unless your a test squadron there will not be any HTS pods at a Block 40 squadron.

Misawa's Block 50s deployed to Korea for 6 months last year and they are only a stones throw away if the balloon goes up.

Remember this as well.. Korea F-16 squadrosn were exempt from AEF tasking because they are already considered in a threat zone. A few years back McEntire even deployed their Block 52 F-16CJs to Korea.

Now the big question is.. the BRAC stated that Osan is to get Block 50s... is that now off the table?

I wonder what would of happened if some of these people all whining about this jet going there or not going there were around when bases like Bitburg, Upper Heyford, Sousterburg, Torrejon, Bentwaters, George, Myrtle Beach, England were losing planes and closing down..

SEAD is going away with manned fighters … 50’s going to ANG makes good business sense while active duty cut their teeth on 35’s.

I always thought the ANG was a backup weapon compared to your primary weapon (active duty)

When the whistle blows and the F-35 can’t hang? … Well … we will have block 50’s in some of the best units in the world!

VarkVet wrote:

SEAD is going away with manned fighters … 50’s going to ANG makes good business sense while active duty cut their teeth on 35’s.

I always thought the ANG was a backup weapon compared to your primary weapon (active duty)

When the whistle blows and the F-35 can’t hang? … Well … we will have block 50’s in some of the best units in the world!

Its going to take another decade before SEAD is entirely taken over by the UCVs. Otherwise you would of seen Misawa and Shaw also start to lose their Block 50s or their primary DOC statement go from SEAD to Interdiction. Air to Air radar and RWR or HTS type sensors and the relay of that data to the operators on the ground is still in its infancy.

What alot of people don't realize is that OPLANs without going into anything classified have the ANG/AFRES there on DAY ONE. Total Force has been in effect since Desert Storm.

How about this for more hearthache among the ANG/Reserve bashers - The 199FS at Hickam AFB, Hawaii is getting the F-22A in a couple years. People said no way they are going to stand up an active squadron there..they were right they stood up an associate active squadron!

Well if and when the Spang Block 50s get to Duluth, someone please tell me they'll strip that god-awful Have Glass paint off 'em. Wink

Forum: F-16 News

First Block 50 F-16s to arrive at Duluth in April