Forum: Modern Military Aircraft

The F-22 has plans for the equivalent of 5 radars; one in the nose, passive recievers in the wing tips, and cheek-mounted side looking elements. At one time the entire leading edge of the wings were going to be fit with passive elements; the wingtip layout was a change to make the F-22 more affordable. Unlike some of the future upgrades, the leading edge will not be backfit. Seems like there was news a little bit ago that the cheek radars were being backfitted to the older models in the future. F-22 was rushed out and there are at least three standard fittings of equipment, with none of the current three even complete as planned. Apparently the planes have substantial upgrades planned in the next decade to get them to one common standard.

Makes me think of two (rhetorical) questions. How much will these changes affect unit price? And how much of this will happen in the F-35 program?

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madrat wrote:

The F-22 has plans for the equivalent of 5 radars; one in the nose, passive recievers in the wing tips, and cheek-mounted side looking elements. At one time the entire leading edge of the wings were going to be fit with passive elements; the wingtip layout was a change to make the F-22 more affordable. Unlike some of the future upgrades, the leading edge will not be backfit. Seems like there was news a little bit ago that the cheek radars were being backfitted to the older models in the future. F-22 was rushed out and there are at least three standard fittings of equipment, with none of the current three even complete as planned. Apparently the planes have substantial upgrades planned in the next decade to get them to one common standard.

Makes me think of two (rhetorical) questions. How much will these changes affect unit price? And how much of this will happen in the F-35 program?

In addition to the software upgrades, there is space(and electrical/cooling capacity) for the cheek arrays, and an IRST. The MLDs will be able to provide detection of aircraft as well as missiles(and likely be able to cue the AIM-9Xs for HOBS shots).

Forum Veteran Joined: Apr 16, 2005 - 03:16 PM Posts: 800

I wonder if the 9X could use to intercept AAMs with the MLDs. At close range it has an excellent manoeuvrability with its thrust vectoring, and $300000 per missile is not cost prohibitive to protect a 130 million aircraft.

Viperalltheway wrote:

I wonder if the 9X could use to intercept AAMs with the MLDs. At close range it has an excellent manoeuvrability with its thrust vectoring, and $300000 per missile is not cost prohibitive to protect a 130 million aircraft.

It'd be even better to include a DIRCM system, like the F-35's getting.

Last edited by cywolf32 on Apr 14, 2010 - 02:12 AM; edited 1 time in total

Madrat,

Passive sensors do not a radar make (IRST was planned for the wings). And I have heard of nothing of the F-22 receiving cheek arrays. Wishful thinking at this point. All upgrades to the aiframe through block 3.5 are to be software only.

Double post

Forum Veteran Joined: Apr 16, 2005 - 03:16 PM Posts: 800

Yes. Maybe integrated to one of the main bay doors..

I have not been able to find a definitive 3.2 through 3.5 upgrade list. Do you have a source handy?

Hello

cywolf32 wrote:

And I have heard of nothing of the F-22 receiving cheek arrays. Wishful thinking at this point

That is because currently all money are spent on F-35 development, to make it second F-22 in terms of A2A capabilities Wink

.

cywolf32 wrote:

All upgrades to the aiframe through block 3.5 are to be software only.

Well, according to this article:
http://www.examiner.com/x-5411-Military ... ors-talons

there will be also some small hardware upgrades like this one to the MADL data link.

Regards

Rapec wrote:

Hello

cywolf32 wrote:

And I have heard of nothing of the F-22 receiving cheek arrays. Wishful thinking at this point

That is because currently all money are spent on F-35 development, to make it second F-22 in terms of A2A capabilities Wink

.

Regards

Would I be correct in thinking that although the F-35 has less of a speed, energy and altitude advantage than the F-22 it actually has the more advanced and lethal radar and avionics setup of the two fighters. I assume i'm right anyway (lol) but, the only bit i'm unsure about is if the F-35 has anything remotely comparable to the AN/ALR-94.
I know the F-35 will have the Barracuda EW suite but does anyone have any unclassified info or insights into how the two (Barracuda & AN/ALR-94) compare?
For example does the F-35 have anything like the as the 30 antennas the F-22 has, does it even need to these days with advancements too..?

If the f-35 could (even in some way) be a more effective A2A platform than the '22, then they would completely stop to employ the last and deny foreign sales even to closests alleys of the first.
Just my opinion...

Corsair1963 wrote:

HaveVoid wrote:

Found this article, it references a new Kopp article. I don't know why, but this guy seems to be a wee bit on the extreme side..

and Peter Goon from Air Power Australia, an independent adviser to the Australian military says that the new Russian fighter, the Sukhoi T-50 or PAK-FA, could hold the “future of tactical air power”.

In terms of its design, the report argues that the T-50 has a design that “has forward fuselage, inlet, upper fuselage, wing and tail surface airframe Very Low Observable (VLO/stealth) shaping, which is highly competitive against the US F-22A Raptor and YF-23 ATF designs. Aft and centre lower fuselage, and aft fuselage and nozzle shaping is inferior to the F-22A Raptor and YF-23 ATF designs, sharing the same deficiencies as the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.”

However, the report says that where the T-50 design potentially excels is in its “combined use of 3D thrust vector control of the engine nozzles, all moving tail surfaces, and refined aerodynamic design with relaxed directional static stability and careful mass distribution to control inertial effects”.

Dr Kopp and Goon also think that Russian radar design will be on a par with Western standards with X-band multi-mode primary Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar. They consider that once in production, the T-50 will match the F-22A Raptor in most aspects and outperform it “aerodynamically and kinematically”.

In summing up, the report says that the T-50 will “render all legacy US fighter aircraft and the F-35 strategically irrelevant” once it enters service in 2015 and the only “viable strategic survival strategy now remaining for the United States is to terminate the Joint Strike Fighter programme immediately” and direct funding to improve the F-22A Raptor

LOL

I'm glad you found that so amusing. Care to share what was so funny Very Happy

HaveVoid wrote:

I'm glad you found that so amusing. Care to share what was so funny Very Happy

You haven't figured it out yet?
One quick skim through of it and not only was I laughing but my eyes were rolling too. (Then I felt sorry for kopp and goon.)

Neno wrote:

If the f-35 could (even in some way) be a more effective A2A platform than the '22, then they would completely stop to employ the last and deny foreign sales even to closests alleys of the first.
Just my opinion...

Very good point that i hadn't considerd. Though I still think in many respects it will be more advance.

shep1978 wrote:

HaveVoid wrote:

I'm glad you found that so amusing. Care to share what was so funny Very Happy

You haven't figured it out yet?
One quick skim through of it and not only was I laughing but my eyes were rolling too. (Then I felt sorry for kopp and goon.)

I was unsure if you were laughing at something I said, or the article

Forum: Modern Military Aircraft

Overstatement of PAK-FA capabilities?