Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

zwz wrote:

end wrote:

zwz wrote:

It was French weekly Air&cosmos, 2010/1/29 Page 9

I don't know you are French or not, but obviously, you do not know French would never say "gun kill". This piece you snaped was quoted from American comments very clearly. Laughing

Yes I'm not french, I just study in Paris.

So you are in Paris for sure then you'd better know this Air-Comos is not a professional aircraft mag especially not for military jets.

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Ahh, I think I see whats going on here. When Air and Cosmos has favourable news for the French then it is a good magazine, when the opposite is true and it presents bad news for the French then it becomes a "bad magazine"

Just accept it, the Rafale got busted up by the F-22, end of story.

npeterman18 wrote:

My French is not great, and most of it comes from speaking spanish, and listening to the accaisonal French film, however here is what I have translated regarding the F-22 portion of the article (disregarding the intro sentence talking about the Typhoon)

little has been said about the confrontation between the dassault delta (read rafale) and Americans F-22A present on site. In beyond visiual range engagements, the U.S. Raptors did not even have to turn on their radar, remaining invisible to RBE2 and spectra of the Rafales, while pinpointing the electromagnetic emissions of French fighter, thus securing their firing of AMRAAM from standoff ranges. On at least two occasions, the F-22A were also involved in close combat with Rafales, providing gun kill without much difficulty each time

Hopefully that clarifies that article for thos of y'all who don't speak an Francais.

NKDP

I'll take your word for it since I can't read a word of frog. Wink

shep1978 wrote:

Ahh, I think I see whats going on here. When Air and Cosmos has favourable news for the French then it is a good magazine, when the opposite is true and it presents bad news for the French then it becomes a "bad magazine"

Just accept it, the Rafale got busted up by the F-22, end of story.

So does some internet forums comment F-22 and F-16 and any US jets. Very Happy

Yes I admit that "double standard" is one of the key skills at which we need to be proficient in order to survive the forum debate. Very Happy

SpudmanWP wrote:

The radar had to be on, in some mode, at some point.. otherwise the F-22 would not get a proper gun lead solution.

The only real problem I can see here is range, but at gun ranges the pilot is likely to judge about the distance being good enough. Ballistic trajectory is calculated independent from the range measurement or at least can be independent and is still accurate.

Neno wrote:

If there were two kill gun, the french radar (and irst!) were not able to detect raptor until it was at few miles..
Or maybe the raptors were able to turn around the target and reach it from six?

Hmm... I don't know if raptor's pilots really turned off their apg77.. in that case if the rafales switched off their radar too (using their irst) they paradoxally have becomed stealth to the raptors.. Isuspect the apg77 were on..

You think any fighter can turn off their radar to become STEALTH? LMAO

zwz wrote:

Neno wrote:

If there were two kill gun, the french radar (and irst!) were not able to detect raptor until it was at few miles..
Or maybe the raptors were able to turn around the target and reach it from six?

Hmm... I don't know if raptor's pilots really turned off their apg77.. in that case if the rafales switched off their radar too (using their irst) they paradoxally have becomed stealth to the raptors.. Isuspect the apg77 were on..

You think any fighter can turn off their radar to become STEALTH? LMAO

If the other fighter can't rely on IRST or offboard support, while turning of this own radar the opposing aircraft can't be detected. Laughing

zwz wrote:

Neno wrote:

If there were two kill gun, the french radar (and irst!) were not able to detect raptor until it was at few miles..
Or maybe the raptors were able to turn around the target and reach it from six?

Hmm... I don't know if raptor's pilots really turned off their apg77.. in that case if the rafales switched off their radar too (using their irst) they paradoxally have becomed stealth to the raptors.. Isuspect the apg77 were on..

You think any fighter can turn off their radar to become STEALTH? LMAO

if the other aircraft (f-22 in this case) keep it's radar off, and do not have an irst, yes.

Neno wrote:

zwz wrote:

Neno wrote:

If there were two kill gun, the french radar (and irst!) were not able to detect raptor until it was at few miles..
Or maybe the raptors were able to turn around the target and reach it from six?

Hmm... I don't know if raptor's pilots really turned off their apg77.. in that case if the rafales switched off their radar too (using their irst) they paradoxally have becomed stealth to the raptors.. Isuspect the apg77 were on..

You think any fighter can turn off their radar to become STEALTH? LMAO

if the other aircraft (f-22 in this case) keep it's radar off, and do not have an irst, yes.

Obviuosly you don't konw how LPI works.

I've not had any truth yet, but we know the French mag's report was complete fair to quote comment out of US as End said.

Aarh, the fact is here now:
[Link pending approval];page=25

"According to A&C The BVR story would be that F22 made virtual kills against rafale while rafale pilots were not aware that F22 pilots whould try to simulate this kind of engagements. (They were busy performing their own missions but not expecting that F22 would try to score a kill)"

LOL. So now they claim they didn't know they were fighting them, sure, we all believe that...

shep1978 wrote:

LOL. So now they claim they didn't know they were fighting them, sure, we all believe that...

Sounds just like everybody else's experience when fighting F-22s.

Really, I can't seem to remember the last time a country's AF (the French one in this case) spinning stories the way they have like this.

shep1978 wrote:

"According to A&C The BVR story would be that F22 made virtual kills against rafale while rafale pilots were not aware that F22 pilots whould try to simulate this kind of engagements. (They were busy performing their own missions but not expecting that F22 would try to score a kill)"

LOL. So now they claim they didn't know they were fighting them, sure, we all believe that...

Most like they were correct... that is a very familiar complaint about going up against the F-22A. Most opponents don't know when they are under attack from a F-22A.

Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

F-22 vs rafale