Forum: Modern Military Aircraft

How hard (and costly) would it be to fit AIM-120 missiles onto a MiG-29?

As you know, quite a few owners of MiG-29 are now NATO members - like Poland, Slovakia, etc. Some of them have adjusted their MiGs to NATO standards - giving them Western nav, comm, IFF and other systems.

So I was wondering how difficult would it be to give a MiG-29 an AMRAAM with all respective support systems: pylons (relatively easy, I guess), a wire datalink, a radio datalink for target updates, an armament computer for mission programming, etc.

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I'm pretty sure you'd need a whole new radar suite, and besides--the Vympel AA-12 fill sthe same role--and some sources I've come across say it has a slightly longer range than the AMRAAM.

Its NATO name is Adder--but some call it AMRAAMski.

If I remember correctly, most of the cost of fitting different systems onto aircraft is software. You have to make the US software interface with the Russian stuff and that can get costly right there because things don't always fit well. I think the pylons to actually fit the hardware are not all that hard to come by I'd imagine. I'm not sure if you'd have to reprogram the flight computers since it wouldn't be used to the AIM120 weight and drag, but if you did it would probably not be a very robust system in the first place.

LordOfBunnies wrote:

If I remember correctly, most of the cost of fitting different systems onto aircraft is software. You have to make the US software interface with the Russian stuff and that can get costly right there because things don't always fit well. I think the pylons to actually fit the hardware are not all that hard to come by I'd imagine. I'm not sure if you'd have to reprogram the flight computers since it wouldn't be used to the AIM120 weight and drag, but if you did it would probably not be a very robust system in the first place.

The old MiG-29s had no flight computers. Wink

Basically there is a lot behint that. Integrating such a weapon means it has to interface with the aircrafts systems and that is quite some work. Given the fact that most MiG-29 in NATO service won't serve that long anyway and given the fact that most of the customers don't have much money they just fitted the relative easy to fit components to ensure the minimum degree of compatiblity with other NATO assets.

Scorpion82 wrote:

The old MiG-29s had no flight computers. Wink

Basically there is a lot behint that. Integrating such a weapon means it has to interface with the aircrafts systems and that is quite some work. Given the fact that most MiG-29 in NATO service won't serve that long anyway and given the fact that most of the customers don't have much money they just fitted the relative easy to fit components to ensure the minimum degree of compatiblity with other NATO assets.

Doh, bad assumption on my part. I'm just so used to all modern jets have FLCS. Crazy Pilot

I'm not sure about those MiGs lasting a while. The broke countries will probably not have the money to replace them with like Block 50/52/60 F-16s or F35s. Like part of the reason the US hasn't replaced parts of its inventory... costs to much to update the stuff for a limited operational upgrade. Now, refitting the MiGs with non-Russian engines, that I could see. I've heard a few horror stories about the Russian engines.

Elite 1K Joined: May 26, 2005 - 08:39 PM Posts: 1496

Quote:

Doh, bad assumption on my part. I'm just so used to all modern jets have FLCS.

You vant flight compooter?

Da, vee hav flight compooter.

Laughing

LordOfBunnies wrote:

I'm not sure about those MiGs lasting a while. The broke countries will probably not have the money to replace them with like Block 50/52/60 F-16s or F35s. Like part of the reason the US hasn't replaced parts of its inventory... costs to much to update the stuff for a limited operational upgrade. Now, refitting the MiGs with non-Russian engines, that I could see. I've heard a few horror stories about the Russian engines.

Well most of the current NATO MiG-29 operators are already introducing new fighters or are running competitions with the same goal. Poland already operate F-16 blk52M, Hungary the JAS 39C/D and Bulgaria has issued a RfP. That leaves Slovenia and Slovakia as MiG-29 operators.

BAAAAAA, BAAAAAA.... I feel sheepish.

Need to learn 2 google before running my mouth lol.

I recall this issue coming up several years ago in some of the Central European states. At least one new NATO member took steps to explore the potential of mounting US guided weapons on their MiG-29s and SUs. One of those weapons was AMRAAM.

The response from the US side was negative because a) the Central Europeans did not have all the "source codes" for their MiG software and would require Russian assistance to integrate the AMRAAM - that was definitely a no-go for the US and b) although not stated officially, the US was more interested in promoting F-16/F-18 sales to new NATO members that keeping them in the MiG camp.

Ski

You see, this forum is so informative. All this time I assumed all you would need is (1) Lrg. Hammer, A standard issue can opener, Bailing wire, Duct Tape, and approx 15 ft. of dynamite fuse. LMAO

Then next thing someone will ask is if the F414 will fit, or the APG-68 can be installed... Doh

Tim wrote:

You see, this forum is so informative. All this time I assumed all you would need is (1) Lrg. Hammer, A standard issue can opener, Bailing wire, Duct Tape, and approx 15 ft. of dynamite fuse. LMAO

I think I once saw MacGyver make a rocket launcher out of all of that stuff.

Quote:

I think I once saw MacGyver make a rocket launcher out of all of that stuff.

You forgot the paper-towel roll.

Can-opener is not needed, MacGyver has the Swiss Army Knife...

Hey, don’t laugh. MacGyver might have been exercising his unfeasibly optimistic skills on television but this banana peel is for real.

How do you think these kinds of schemes come about? A deputy Sec Def on a courtesy call to his US counterpart encounters a lull in the conversation with the awkward dead air that accompanies it and breaks it by asking, “you know Meester Sekretarry, I vas vondering, now dat vee are in Naato, how it vood luke if vee hang AMRAAM on our Meeg-29.” Before you can say “did I just hear that?” you’ve got a two-star on his way down from Washington accompanied by an SAF/IAW team, EUCOM, country officers, industry, etc.

No kidding, these things really do happen. It's called diplomacy.

Ski

Forum: Modern Military Aircraft

Fitting an AMRAAM onto a MiG-29