Forum: Job Openings

Ed that sounds real good. You need to inform the new guys also that tipping the shopping bus driver is not required. The shopping bus driver is during his job. I have recently seen many of the new guys tipping these drivers. Remember we dont get any Tips for performing our jobs. We all need to discourage this. Many times the bus drivers fail to stop at their required stops. There is one driver that does that alot and we all know who this person is. Maybe throw in a current prayer schedule on that website would be helpfull since you have to wait for the stores to open.

Go Easy on that Fast Food its bad for your health!!!!!!!!! Stick with the Chicken Swharma its good for your health!

Enjoy the New Year!!!!!!!!

F-16.net Sponsor

Pokey - I'm not sure why it would warrant an entry on this space to gripe about a lowly bus driver getting a tip. Granted, you don't get paid tips for doing your job, but then you're probably paid at least $5,000 a month or probably, more. This poor broke dick is trying to feed a family back home in India, Pakistan or some other sh*t hole and he makes $200 a month. And you bitch about your yearly bonus being late, or the crapping insurance plan AEC signed up to. My guess is, you probably wouldn't change places with the poor bastard driving your bus but you'd bitch about someone slipping him a five or ten riyal note at the end of the shopping trip. Get a life!!

"I'd like to have an argument please......"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3HaRFBSq9k

Two very good points made, but I think the point about a tip is did the person or driver earn one. If the driver helps with your shopping bags, or does something other than just drive you around that is helpful to you then a tip is earned. On the other hand if he just sits and provides nothing more than his job well I wouldn't tip him.

Some of these service workers (gardeners, drivers, maint. guys) look at the Americans as stupid when they tip because in their economy 5, 10, or 20 riyals is like X5, so hey give them a 50 rupee tip (if you where in the USA you wouldn't tip 50 dollars) then X10 pax. = 500 and they make more in tips than their salary.

Now put that point aside, AEC gives a merit increase to it's people instead of tipping, by the way have any AEC people gotten a merit raise.

One last point, only cyber bullies attack people on line, most offten emotions get into the debate which then cause a failure to communicate. We need to keep from name calling the writers, if you don't agree then don't agree, but stay on the subject and don't look for deflections to support your arguments.

Darkside,

Good day to you and I appreciate your honest feedback in regards to how you feel about the performance of AEC and ATTI during the first year of the contract. I am sure that you have been here for a while and you know how these contracts go from time to time, but unfortunately, they don't always go the way that you may want it to go in regards to your personal requirements.

I am a bit amused to you using my name in vain on the site as well as the others that you have so kindly mentioned. I will be doing the annual TAA brief next month in Dhahran and I would love to set down with you, so that you can express your lack of trust in AEC, ATTI and myself. I assure you that I will take it constructively and ask that you also look in the mirror before you throw stones at the company and myself.

I will not hide behind a screen name as my name has been mentioned in a public forum. Anyone in this forum who would like to meet and discuss your issues with me, feel free to let Glenn or Benny know and I will make time to meet with you during my visit.

Oh yeah, hope you all enjoyed receiving your annual bonus before it is actually due per your contract. Also AEC beat me to the excuse, as they have admitted to dropping the HL and IL payment to us late. We can discuss all of this when I arrive in January.

Have a great day and try and not ruin it for everyone because not all of us have your needs and requirements.

Note: My name is spelled Massey not Massay.

I looked at this contract also and closed it out as soon as I saw I would be getting paid in riyals. I figured the exchange thing would end up being a problem. But to each their own.

rmassey wrote:

Darkside,

Good day to you and I appreciate your honest feedback in regards to how you feel about the performance of AEC and ATTI during the first year of the contract. I am sure that you have been here for a while and you know how these contracts go from time to time, but unfortunately, they don't always go the way that you may want it to go in regards to your personal requirements.

I am a bit amused to you using my name in vain on the site as well as the others that you have so kindly mentioned. I will be doing the annual TAA brief next month in Dhahran and I would love to set down with you, so that you can express your lack of trust in AEC, ATTI and myself. I assure you that I will take it constructively and ask that you also look in the mirror before you throw stones at the company and myself.

I will not hide behind a screen name as my name has been mentioned in a public forum. Anyone in this forum who would like to meet and discuss your issues with me, feel free to let Glenn or Benny know and I will make time to meet with you during my visit.

Oh yeah, hope you all enjoyed receiving your annual bonus before it is actually due per your contract. Also AEC beat me to the excuse, as they have admitted to dropping the HL and IL payment to us late. We can discuss all of this when I arrive in January.

Have a great day and try and not ruin it for everyone because not all of us have your needs and requirements.

Note: My name is spelled Massey not Massay.

k.....I'm done. This was all fun and games for a spell, but I can see now precisely what at least 1 of the the issues is. Mr. Massey, brother, pack your stuff, you just lost. If I were your boss, you be on the first thing smokin' out of the kingdom. In case you are interested, what you did here is #7 on the list in the management 101 textbook where it says "Hey, don't do this".

The worst thing we do in American business is fail to teach leaders and motivators how to do those 2 things. I'd be stunned to learn you were military trained, and if that's the case I can only imagine you weren't paying attention the day they talked about motivation and respect. I can clearly see why your people don't respect you, and it has 0 to do with $$$, exchange rates, working conditions or transpo....

The fact that they would put a guy nominally in charge of something who'd show up on a totally unrelated internet forum spewing pablum like this instead of spending every waking second trying to improve things for his people speaks VOLUMES about this outfit. Let me type this part slowly......its not about you, don't take it personally....you can't when you are in charge of people. If you are in this for you, and not your people, then you will ultimately be unsuccessful, but I'd bet this isn't the first time that's happened, judging by what you wrote.

Grow up, learn to do your job, do it well and take care of your people. The 15 minutes you spent typing trying to defend the "honor" of the company and your pride would be much better spent on the phone with somebody up your chain trying to fix something or trying to figure out why your people don't respond to you.

This was childish and stupid...'sides, if you guys want to fling pooh at each other, that's why God invented e-mail. If you want to continue down this particular track, try "you have to do what I say because I'm in charge, dammit!" That one always works wonders.

Just some free advice from a good 'ol boy.....worth what you paid for it.

I have a question for gunslingera10. Once again I would like to know what do I need in order to receive a merit raise ?
1. Do I need a Blue letter from my Saudi Chief's. Does it need to be written in either english or Arabic
2. Do I need to write a letter on my own or have my White Shirt write one.

An example of what the company requires would be very helpfull to All of us.

The cost of American fast food is going up and I need to make up the difference somehow since I have not received an increase in COLA

Help us all out

In response to Larry's Laff I'll drive a bus around the cornish or whereever and make extra money from the the tips and live like a King in India , Pakistan or where ever........ Just keep on Tipping them better you than me. I am still trying to my my riches here. I wish we still had McDonnell Douglas here. When we all got paid very well and Life was Good then.
T.W.A.T.

Dear Pokey - Wishing for MD, Raytheon, Hughes, etc to come back isn't going to happen. Having read your posts, I'm willing to bet you were bitching about something or another back then as well. Don't get me wrong because there's nothing wrong with that. I think it was Gen Custer who said, "A bitching soldier is a happy soldier" and by that criteria, you must be "one happy camper."
New topic - Regarding your merit pay raise. In a perfect world, AEC would have a policy manual or guidelines outlining policy and procedure on this and a whole range of HR- related subjects. This is Saudi Arabia and far from the perfect world. And since I'm guessing you're probably not going to get a response with your "prickly" attitude do what I did. I wrote a letter (actually email) outlined what I wanted (9% raise) and why I deserved it. I got 6% which was more than I would have got if I'd restricted my activities to merely bitching on an on-line forum. Try it and see what happens.

Ok Larry's laff now how long did you have to wait to get a response back from the company. Just by reading all these comments it looks to me like it could take months. Maybe 6 months +

Afterburn,

Thanks for the comment and you may want to re-read my statement. I believe that I am offering those who feel so sour about the companies involved to set up a meeting time with me and I can forward their issues to AEC. Is that not what we (Mgrs) are suppose to do or do we (DMP's) just complain until we leave and then bad mouth the company continuously?

Item2: As you said yourself, it is not about me and I do agree, but if you are going to call my name out, then it gets me involved. I believe our pilot said it best, why are we airing our dirty laundry on a F-16 site in the first place when all have people that you can go to? We are not perfect in what we do, but neither are some of you. Give the company a chance to prove themselves without looking for that 100K salary.

We have failed to communicate directly with those who can make or attempt to make a change with this contract, but instead have chosen an avenue to discourage others to come and be part of the team.

I suppose any time a worker gets a pay raise it should be started by their supervisor. Then on up the chain till it is signed off on by the top manager.

That said, you must have a supervisor that does his job and looks out for his people. I will say that if you don't do your job right on the a/c and it is attibuted to your errors you will have to pay the pipper. Conversly, if supervison does a poor job and lets their people work hard without recognition (merit raise, compensary time off) no one will say anything for lack of over sight as long as they continue to say "YES SIR" on up the chain to everyone.

Now that may sound hard on those poor saps, but that is why thy get paid the big bucks, on the other hand if they can't do the job or except the responsibilities of that job they need not have it. I suppose most people in those jobs in the KSA have got connections (clica) one way or another to get most all the extra out of the troth.

Laary I don't know you from Adam, but I guess your supervisor signed your request and if not where are the checks and balances here, I mean supervison. The Co. should know who is doing what and know what the competitive salary should be for that position, but that you have to send a begging letter to get what you should be paid, I'm sorry but that sounds like poor over sight or operations.

Once again, this is not the RSAF, I would have to say this falls squarly on ATTI, who should in turn submit an increase to contract for those purposess. That is why they want it on a blue letter so you have done half their job, but all this talk on here will not get anything done unless you have someone on the inside pulling for you.

Oh and that thingy about Gen Cluster, I wouldn't want to be in his out fit anyway. Isn't he the one that whent around killing all the minorties, so his clica could grow and expand. I think in the end he was wearing an arrow shirt.

The point here is that there is a lack of communication up the chain or down and no policy manual, and without that it is left to the good-ol-boy system- I mean clica, to get done what you need if you are in the circle. others need not apply.

Do them a favor and quit, or have them fire you, both of which makes it easyer for them (clica) to hire another one of their own, or not have to do their jobs to address this and fix it.

I don't think they are rotten fellows just misslead by past influneces, nothing a good course or refresher in managment wouldn't cure. For the ones who have gotten that trainning then they lack ethics, all in all everyone needs to contiune in their efforts to improve at what they do.

Last edited by gunslingera10 on Dec 28, 2008 - 06:57 PM; edited 1 time in total

I am as proud as the next guy about the F-15, but that we use this net or any net to air our concerns makes no differenace. I subpose the point being made is don't air your concerns, but if there was a site to go to as someone has proposed making, some people still wouldn't like it, I for one am glad they use this ave. to release their pressure and don't resot to another means more aggressive.

What is a blog, a forum to allow people to talk about things regaurdless of the site.

No respone required.

rmassey wrote:

Afterburn,

Thanks for the comment and you may want to re-read my statement. I believe that I am offering those who feel so sour about the companies involved to set up a meeting time with me and I can forward their issues to AEC. Is that not what we (Mgrs) are suppose to do or do we (DMP's) just complain until we leave and then bad mouth the company continuously?

Item2: As you said yourself, it is not about me and I do agree, but if you are going to call my name out, then it gets me involved. I believe our pilot said it best, why are we airing our dirty laundry on a F-16 site in the first place when all have people that you can go to? We are not perfect in what we do, but neither are some of you. Give the company a chance to prove themselves without looking for that 100K salary.

We have failed to communicate directly with those who can make or attempt to make a change with this contract, but instead have chosen an avenue to discourage others to come and be part of the team.

Sorry, you still don't get it. Anytime you are management, and you allow yourself to become embroiled in ANY sort of "well, they called me out by name" situation where you feel like you must "defend" yourself, you've already lost. The place for you to "set up a meeting time with me and I can forward their issues to AEC" is not here, and forwarding their issues to AEC is not your job....fixing their problems is, especially if you are HR or ops.

Its the perrogative of any employee to say/do whatever they want to discourage anybody else from working there....its your job as middle management to stay focused on keeping the Mickey Mouse away from the folks actually doing the job, including spending 3 seconds on a website forum where they are bitching about the job you are doing. The LAST thing anybody from that company needs to be saying is "give us a chance" and certainly not on a website forum not at all related to this issue. You have 1 of 2 choices as middle management......you either make things easier for your people to perform, unless you are prepared to go wrench F-15s yourself, or you make it harder, period. ANY ammount of time spent doing anything that isn't making the first happen, is making the second happen. People don't perform for money. I've spent my career with people who'd die for each other for 45K annum. As you've seen, the excuses are wearing thin. I'm not unaware of issues in the start-up contract world...I spent a year with a really rotten outfit in Iraq all of '04, but 2 things made it go from my perspective....my people knew exactly what I knew, all the time, and they also knew I spent all my time working for them, not the company. I had 0 people demob from my direct supervision.

Stay off the boards, fix your people's problems.

Forum: Job Openings

Warning about F-15 jobs, AEC, Saudi Arabia