Forum: F-16 Design & Construction

Oh, I see.

But there's still one thing I don't get. If the new PW and GE engines have the same amount of thrust, why do they need different air intakes?

F-16.net Sponsor

At MAX power... Devil

The PW-229's exhaust plume is 3200*F and traveling 1955 Kts; while moving 254lbs of air per second through the inlet/engine.

The GE-100/129's plume only reaches 2000*F and 1200 Kts; while moving 270lbs per second through the inlet/engine.

As you can see the PW-229 engine may use less air, but moves it much hotter/faster.

Roughly put: Thrust = Mass x Acceleration

So a GE is higher mass at a lower acceleration,
but a PW is lower mass at a higher acceleration

PW has kept the 254lbs/sec airflow requirement as it allows ANY F-16 to be fitted with a "newer" F100s without performance loss. Put a GE (needing 270lbs/sec) into a small-mouth (Older) Viper (giving only 254lbs/sec) and it will not perform as advertised.

So yes, a new Polish PW-229 would fit perfectly into a Dutch F-16A MLU with minor modifications. (Bleed air system mostly due to hotter source air.) The engine would suffer no ill effects or performance limitations when compared to being installed in Polish Block 52+.

Keep 'em flyin' Thumb

TEG

The differences originally were a Blk 52 had:
Color MFD's, Color HSI, JHMCS, PW-229 IPE Engine, LINK 16, AIM-9X, JASSM capability

ViperDude

So to put it simply, the GE sucks and the PW rules. I wonder why they haven't stopped using it in the newer F-16's.

Not that GE sucks; It just uses more air. LMAO

GE-129 and PW-229 both have their strong and weak points.

xenon333 wrote:

Yes, but have the inlets themselves changed over time? For example, if I took a small mouth from a blk 15 and compared it to a small mouth from blk 52, would their shapes match up perfectly?

The shapes are NOT a perfect match. The newest 50/52's and 60's have a larger nose tire which required the intake to be reshaped to accomodate the new tires size. If you can find a newer intake you should be able to see a noticeable bump about 4 feet in on the lower surface.

The external shape has not changed.

Last edited by xenon333 on Apr 05, 2008 - 12:46 AM; edited 1 time in total

I was referring to the shape of the PW intake mouth. Those are still perfect matches all the way to the blk 52, right?

ViperDude wrote:

The differences originally were a Blk 52 had:
Color MFD's, Color HSI, JHMCS, PW-229 IPE Engine, LINK 16, AIM-9X, JASSM capability

Hey ViperDude, those differences are for blk52+, not for 52.
blk 52 & 50 are identical exept for the engine.
Cheers.

xenon333,
Having flown both P&W and GE, I'll attest the GE does not suck. The P&W well... It's not my favorite. As far as the Block 50 vs 52 both are great engines in a great aircraft, however, the time on station for the 52 leaves something to be desired. So I'd say the PW229 sucks.....gas (kidding TEG). Obviously not moving the airflow like a GE, the PW makes up for it by using more fuel.
Someone else said earlier in the post that the 32 and 30 performed the same. Ahhh...not even close. Block 30 wins that race by a mile.

Well, at least the PW can fry eggs faster than your precious GE engine. Razz

By the way, I'm still waiting for you to answer my previous post, TEG.

xenon333 wrote:

I was referring to the shape of the PW intake mouth. Those are still perfect matches all the way to the blk 52, right?

Right the mouth of all PW aircraft are a perfect match.

Y'all, I'm staying out of this one and just gonna watch it stir up!!

YAIFW wrote:

The shapes are NOT a perfect match. The newest 50/52's and 60's have a larger nose tire which required the intake to be reshaped to accomodate the new tires size. If you can find a newer intake you should be able to see a noticeable bump about 4 feet in on the lower surface.

Picture from F-16.net

Vark, that bump is inside the intake. I was referring only to the shape of the intake's mouth/opening. According to TEG, the mouth/opening still has the exact same shape as all other small mouths. That's all I really wanted to know.

Thanks all.

Forum: F-16 Design & Construction

Size of the air intakes