Forum: F-16 News

Purplehaze wrote:

This is going to be a great thread.

Yeah!!! I´m also surprised! Originally, I submitted the related Aviano news to our F-16.net server to create simply one more F-16 News. But this news was not adopted, at least up to day. Meanwhile, I´m surprised about your great feedback! Sorry, I´m only a civilian! And so I think, this topic should be better a "playground" for our F-16 professionials.

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akruse21 wrote:

Hey it looks good on paper doesn't it. It must work Smile

Just look at all those hours saved and numbers thrown everywhere.

You are 100% correct there, any good Pro Super can take any number and still make it look good. It just has to be presented correctly, and you can get anyone to buy it. Only time I see saved is the 20% less people to check tools out of the crib.

Quote:

I just don't get it

Hey Purple, this probably saved you becomming a politician Very Happy

I have to agree with Joe and VprGuy and support sections. There always seems to be one or two guys that have their *hit together and they carry the rest. I've been places that have always had the hiccups with the bar code system and when it works it works great...when it doesnt some places just fall apart.

I will also add this question though.....how is it a new idea to put tools on the truck? Everywhere I've been Specs have always checked out about a quarter of the stuff in support which pretty much covers their day other than the oddball stuff. Crew Chief and Weapons Expeditors have been the same way.

Guess we'll all see what happens over the coming days and weeks though.

f16nomore wrote:

I will also add this question though.....how is it a new idea to put tools on the truck? Everywhere I've been Specs have always checked out about a quarter of the stuff in support which pretty much covers their day other than the oddball stuff. Crew Chief and Weapons Expeditors have been the same way.

Guess we'll all see what happens over the coming days and weeks though.

You are also correct, not a new idea, just new people reinventing the wheel. Almost the same type of issue when we went from AMU's & AGS to the Fighter Squadrons. If you wait long enough it will always come back full circle.

I think I've heard that somewhere before too...wait long enough and we go back full circle!! This just goes to prove MX guys will always figure out a way to get the job done.

Enthusiast Joined: Jan 28, 2006 - 10:52 AM Posts: 57

Oh, yeah guys---now that all your jets are good you can go finish up all the other broke jets from the other squadron and when that done you will definetily be at your 12 hour mark. The incentive to get all the next days 18 flyers ready will be gone cause now it just doubled..... Maybe now we can run a normal three shift schedule 7-4 4-11 11-7 Sike

Weekend duty will be Sat and Sun now for 12 hours min.....

The same 4-5 people that bust A$$ on 23 jets will now be working 46......

Luckily I dodged this bullet because next thing you know Spangdahlem will follow------------

It's KC-10s for me in June!
DMAC

Here's a good question, can 1 Pro Super cover a unit that size? I think not, same with expediters. So how will one side feel when the other goes home early... Shrug

Has any thought been given to training? If all you do is launch and recover for 3 years how will your next base feel about your qualifications? How can they bring 3 levels to the 5 level without anything else, this can only happen with MAJCOM approval.

you bring up a good point PurpleHaze along with training you also have the fact that not all 51 planes will be parked in the same location so which former AMU building will everyone be working out of, how do you consolidate tools into one tool crib.....lots of things to work out on this plan before it will begin to work in a small degree without causing more problems. Along with all of this you have launch crews and maintenance crews.....how to scale this back for a deployment when your allowed X number of people and that's it?

PowerPoint warrior invents "new" idea = Good efficiency report. Laughing

Re-inventing the wheel again. Didn't they try this about 12-13 years ago? Then it was all the maintainers working for the FS. This sounds like a re-hash. Again. Remember QAF? Now it's LEAN. Won't work this time either.

I do wish them luck because it's the folks on the line who will pay the price if it doesn't work. Please keep us posted on this.

Thought I would add some thoughts to help clarify:

First, this isn't just about tools. Tools are only the beginning. Although we have more set-up before we'll be where we need to be, the processes are already underway. But since that is what the article in the paper focused on, that's where I'll start.

Imagine coming out of roll call and you were just assigned to go start a 1600 hour landing gear. You walk to the HAS and the jet is already there, along with the jacks, jack pads, job guides, rig fixtures, CTK's, a bench stock, HT-900, anti-skid tester, everything you need to do the job. You didn't even have to go to [Link pending approval] all. It's called the landing gear cell. You work your shift and then at the end of the day you put your tools away in the HAS, sign off the folder (at least 1 7-level) and go home. That's how Boeing rolls a 747 out the front door every 22 days. They put their tools that they need for a particular task in one area for one function. That concept is called "Point of Use". We are making maintenance cells that are functionally specific for the tasks we do. Engine, gun, egress, wire maintenance, FCR, Cann bird, etc. So when a job comes up, we can recover it outside on the pad and shove it inside. Or recover it there the night before if it's a scheduled mx event we already know about.

Yes, Joe, since we've both been around the block a time or two, many of us "pimped out" our expediter trucks to be more efficient. This time it gets better. When you sign out the expediter truck, it's already loaded with everything. No more going to support to pick up everyone and everything every day. Same point of use concept, CTK's, job guides, head sets, EP's, but then let's add a bit more. Fwd supply point, testers, push pull gauge, tires, axle jack. All the things we need to enhance redball support and turning the aircraft quickly. If we need it daily/weekly, then why not just figure out how to control it and leave it there?

You guys can talk about how poor some support sections around the world have been over the last 60 years, but it wouldn't matter how good you can make one or if you staggered your times or whatever. The thought that you have to go to support at all is what we are changing.

It is going to be a culture change for the Air Force (past and present) to accept the fact that our 7-levels are responsible and can account for their tools as good or better than the Airman that got "put" in support for whatever reason. We focused on the fact that we don't fix jets in support, so why would we keep bringing in truckload after truckload of tools every day? After spending months on the tool control, we think we've got it right. If our 7-levels can sign off the engine install and take it to the trim pad to crack burner, then they have more than proved to us that they are ready for the added responsibility, but don't forget that there are always 2 sets of eyes, just like before. But we cut out the waste: waiting, inventory time, movement out front, waiting for the expediter to drop everyone off. We already trust our airman to launch and recover his jet, do a thruflight, launch it [Link pending approval] anyone check his tools until the end of the day when he went to support to turn it in? Didn't think so. We trusted our folks some in the past, this new concept of Point of Use just takes it to the next level. As long as we can accept the change in culture we will be okay.

More lost tools? We don't think so. How many tool boxes get moved from HAS to HAS to HAS, or dump over in the grass when you are pushing your box up and down a hill. Or dropped while loading/unloading the truck? By creating maintenance cells specific for each job, the tools are already there. We won't be moving tools around the flight line as much as we do now. We think less impounds as well since only 1-2 jets are affected, versus the numerous jets a crew typically could work throughout any given shift.

As we all know, F-16 aircraft maintenance is a dynamic and fast paced world. The separation of flying and fixing is a by-product of the creation of the maintenance cells that I will explain later. But if you have ever been told to "Just 3 point it and then wrap it up because we've got pilots stepping and I need you to catch a few intakes and go launch out a jet", then you will be glad to hear about the rest of the [Link pending approval]

jeffhamilton wrote:

But if you have ever been told to "Just 3 point it and then wrap it up because we've got pilots stepping and I need you to catch a few intakes and go launch out a jet", then you will be glad to hear about the rest of the story...

I hated that $hit! Note the past tense...you don't ever get told that at here at Sheppard!! Evil or Very Mad

Enthusiast Joined: Jan 28, 2006 - 10:52 AM Posts: 57

Bring back the metal chits too!
We did'nt have problems Joe at Cannon on the F-111s. Of course there was not 14 different websites in the Air Force with all different passwords, we had 8 cams terminals. Then when the 16s showed up the issues started...... Every man for themselves----the F-16 mentality.

Nobody wants to hear/see the things that are jacked til something is damaged or there is an incedent. Then you better watch your exhaust cause thats when fingers get pointed.

Does'nt the PHA work this way now too? Complete an online CBT about your own health, pass the test and you are golden. Cause lord knows what you get at the clinc--800miligram ___________ and told to live healthier/exercise blah-blah-blah

Whats funny/disturbing is that some of the retired folks around here tell me how they do not miss a bit of it. I do not know how some people sleep at night knowing the hardship they caused.

Forum: F-16 News

Aviano's 31st AMXS merges both AMUs