Forum: Military Aircraft of the Cold War

Last edited by Patriot on Dec 08, 2006 - 03:02 AM; edited 2 times in total

I watched this pretty <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KwUE5EZ5Ek&mode=related&search=">wild video</a> (Flyboys actor James Franco flies with the US Navy Blue Angels and Flyboys actor David Ellison flies with the US Air Force Thunderbirds) (
mummy I want that too Exclamation

) and noticed one thing which repeats in many other clips. I mean Thunderbirds passengers in contrast to Blue Angels passengers have masks. Why?

Could anybody explain me the reason why is that?

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BA "wants" to be macho. T-Birds are smarter to use the masks and speed jeans.

Laughing

Nice video. Enjoyed.

While the G-suits have been discussed before, I don't quite know why the Blues don't use masks. Maybe because they don't fly high enough in the show profile to require O2 Confused

? It's my understanding that O2 is required under regulations from takeoff to landing for military pilots, but maybe it's because of the nature of the team?

Great question, Patriot Very Happy

!

I asked the same question when I flew with them during my exchange program and I was told the following. The reason the Blues don't wear a O2 mask (or their passenger) or G - suit for that matter is due to the fact that the design and routing of the G - Suit Hose and the center control stick have a tendency to bind from time to time under a heavy G load.

When combined with the routing of the O2 hose and when flying in close formation (36 inches apart), none of the pilots want to risk that binding which could screw up their formation flying at high speeds (control stick getting stuck or bound up).

An accident due to such a simple design flaw could be fatal so to allow a smooth flying routine at close quarters, the O2 hose is simply removed during demonstrations. During real world flight operations and carrier operations at high flight environment, the O2 hose is reconnected to allow the flow of oxygen.

Keep in mind many of the maneuvers during their show is conducted under 10,000 AGL which does not require oxygen supplement.

I thought it was a bad idea when I flew with them (passenger status) but if your in good shape (and they push that big time) and in fairly good health, you get used to it. The Thunderbirds on the other hand never fly without O2 or a G-suit installed...I think it is safer and smarter in the long run.

I pulled 9.2 G's without a G- Suit or oxygen during one of my many rides with them and trust me, I hurt for a few days after that, these guys were in great shape, my last ride I was 39 years old (loved the ride) but hurt like hell for two days after it. The G - suit would have helped and I could have used the O2 to help keep me cooler, the A/C flow in the F18 was poor in my opinion but the ride kicked butt..mainly mine.

But that is why they don't use O2 or a G - suit during Demos, my pilot explained it to me and it was backed up my the ground crews, poor design for the type of flying they conduct but everything works (hooked back up) when non-demo's or fleet operations are performed.

See ya

Thank you guys for these explanations, now I know much more than yet yesterday he he Thanks

p.s.

Meathook wrote:

...I pulled 9.2 G's without a G- Suit or oxygen during one of my many rides...

I don't know how you do that, but I really believe it must hurt, respect to your achievement Thumb

Thanks....I have to admit, it did hurt some, I came close to "graying out" a few times but found a way to hang in there...it was an amazing ride but I was exhausted when it was over, the toughest one I had and I flew with them eight ( Cool

times not counting the Fat Albert flight.

Thanks...it was the chance of a lifetime and I was determined to take what ever they threw at me...and they threw it all but I loved it.

All the best..... Salute

Reason the Blues don't wear speed jeans is that they rest their stick hand on on their thigh for stability...the constant inflating and deflating of the G-suit interferes.

As for the T-birds, the sidestick alleviates that issue as well as the fact that the O2 hose can't bind either.

If you guys and gals are interested, here's some inflight footage (and photos) of my BA trip in El Centro 2005. Simply Outstanding !!

Yes, I felt rather naked without the suit or mask (I did wear a zoom bag though).

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fusea ... 1647216403

Jorgo, you lucky *&^% Very Happy

!

At least you got something good out of going to El Centro Wink

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Yep, for the Thunderbirds, it's a little easier a setup. Stick is on the side, so they don'trest their hand on their thighs. Plus, the hoses connect out of the pilots' way. CRU-60 bracket for the mask hose connection, is on a bracket on the left side of the harness, and the G suit also connects out of the pilots' way.

Forum Veteran Joined: Dec 15, 2006 - 12:28 AM Posts: 760

Quote:

Why Blue Angels passengers don't have masks ?

Often passengers are not familiar with the equipment, if a passenger vomited in the mask they could drown in their vomit before the pilot could land, and the passenger could even die before the pilot knew the passenger was in trouble. Novice passengers can panic when they vomit, between the panic and not being familiar with the equipment they sometimes can’t get the mask off.

I don’t know of any vomit fatalities in the Blue Angles, but there have been fatalities and close calls before.

Well, I've had lots of my passengers throw up inflight, and it never changed my policy (or my Air Force's) about passengers wearing them. We just trained the passengers well enough until they could learn to remove and re-attach their own mask. And to be honest, if you couldn't do that after a demo or two, then perhaps you didn't have the IQ to be sitting on an ejection seat in the first place.
Obviously the Blue's have their own reasons, and I was happy to go along with that.

Forum Veteran Joined: Dec 15, 2006 - 12:28 AM Posts: 760

Jorgo “then perhaps you didn't have the IQ to be sitting on an ejection seat in the first place.”

Sometimes I think they should let natural selection take its course. Have you ever seen a passenger put his hands up on the canopy when inverted, despite being strapped in? Rolling Eyes

Sorry if my IQ comment comes across as a bit snobby.

Yeah, I've seen that, and I've also heard of people grabbing the ejection seat handle as well. I've had pax knock the control stick whilst in close formation, and once the speedbrake deployed 'all by itself', leading me to think I had a catastrophic loss of thrust. It just proves that we're all human Smile

I once had a guy throw up within five minutes of takeoff, but he knew that my trip still had to go ahead. It was a 70 minute low level navigation sortie, and I just talked to him the whole time, checking he was still okay back there. He was greener than Kermit the Frog, and he had his mask off the whole time. Coming back to base we were held IFR for about 15 minutes due to some problems with prior traffic, and I felt so sorry for him. After we landed I had to literally lift him outta the cockpit - he was so exhausted, then he had a big sleep. I saw him a few days later and he excitedly told me that the flight had been the best experience of his fifteen years of military service. What a guy !

I officially hate you, Jorgo... Wink