Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

Really, the question comes down to how capable is the IRST System on the F-14D. As its the only chance in H@#%that the Venerable Tomcat would have against the Raptor. Yet, I heard much praise of the system. Of course I have to admit I know very little of its true capabilities?

Confused

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My God...F-14 extremists...I've had arguments with them, they're an odd bunch.

Only 88% To 11% (does not equal 100 BTW), that's disturbing...

I think some people were joking Smile

Quote:

Only 88% To 11%

Now only 10% Very Happy

.

You're welcome! Laughing

The IRST on the tomcat was never used to aquire enemy aircraft but rather to assist ID them.

cbale2000 wrote:

I was viewing another forum where some guy is arguing that an F-14 (newest model) could take on/beat an F-22.

Now I have tried repeatedly to prove him wrong but he keeps comming up with info about "how an F-14 can track a F-22s heat signature and fire on it before the F-22 could fire", "how the F-14 can manuver better than the F-22", and all sorts of other info that, to me, sounds bogus.

So, what I'm looking for is some solid evidence that an F-22 could beat an F-14. Any information helps. And if the guy is right and an F-14 CAN beat an F-22, please, by all means let me know.

Thanks in advance. Wink

If you want solid info, look at the flight restrictions that were on the Tomcat at the end of her life cycle. If that plane had to hit mach 2, there was a good chance of structural fatigue and fire/explosion. As beautiful as the Tomcat was, and to me it was gorgeous, it never quite lived up to the expectations. It had engine trouble throughout its life, except for maybe the "new" GE's and it had high failure rates in the electronic department for its entire life. It was never outfitted with AMRAAMs and it was never outfitted with look and shoot helmets for the dueling department. Tomcat-21, that may have been a different story, but that story ended when the tooling for the Tomcat was destroyed in the early 90s.

Also consider the Raptors flight profile, i.e. one plane flying ahead of the wolf pack and relaying radar info back to the pack of Raptors - head on the Raptor would not likely be picked up by the Tomcats radar and its IR signature would largely be shielding by not seeing the exhaust cans, so the Tomcat would be looking for atmospheric heating signatures on the airframe of the 22 which would drastically cut down on the detection range. Also when the lone wolf Raptor picks up the Tomcat on radar and sends that info back to the wolf pack trailing behind, there would be a plethora of 120's heading straight into the Tomcat flight. IR or not on the 22, the Tomcat would lose hands down especially if they closed into a turning fight. Not to mention that the 22 'probably' has some active cancelation mode built into its AESA radar, so the Tomcats would most definately not ever pick up the Raptors until the Tomcat pilots saw the smoke trails from the 120s heading into them. Its too bad that the ATF programme did not incorporate designs that could have been made into a carrier bird.

skrip00 wrote:

So the ALR-94 can detect AESA emissions from an F/A-18F? I thought those radars were just as advanced as the ones going into the -22 and -35? Wouldnt they be inherently difficult to detect?

Well not quite, the APG-77 is an 'no expense spared' design. The APG-81 is taking the knowledge base of the "-77" and designing a more economical/affordable AESA. The other AESA's such as the APG-79, continues this process.
Notice, one tactic used sometimes by the F-22 is to head into a fight with its radar off while another F-22 further away from the fight has its radar on and using the data link to supply the F-22 that is silent with a complete aerial picture. So, detection of AESA's is possible though far more difficult than other radars. Add in the massive computing power of the F-22 and the probability that the F-22 will detect the F/A-18E/F by ESM gear is not unfounded.

Night wrote:

My God...F-14 extremists...I've had arguments with them, they're an odd bunch.

Loyal to a fault, but not blind. My favorite airplane outlived the threat it was designed specifically counter and did it admirably.

Adrian

All of the tactics that the F-22 can employ can be employed by other a/c. Having one 22 illuminate while others remain silent is an old trick. Ships can do it too, ask any Aeigis sailor and they'll tell you. Ever since data links were employed that was possible. The F-14 would still lose, even if it were a brand new F-14D with all the bells and whistles. Even if it had 120s, it would still lose. Even if it had helmet mounted targeting, it would still lose. I will make the argument, and any Turkey pilot would agree....they could give it a run for its money. Its no different for any other pilot of any other a/c.

^^Yeah, but that tactic is a hell of a lot more effective when your RCS is 0.0001m^2 Smile

"The guy also mentioned that an F-14 could use it's IRST to fire a AIM-7 Sparrow before the F-22 could fire.

Any thoughts on that?"

LOL. Just absolutely LOL LMAO

Active Member Joined: Aug 28, 2006 - 05:58 AM Posts: 191

I talked to a F-14D pilot a month or two ago about this (instructor in a Goshawk at the time). He was in the last squadron of F-14D's.

He said" They (Langley)would call us on the phone (Oceana) since we were so close and ask if we wanted to fight, SURE we said. Well at first they only wanted to do BVR stuff, well, forget about it, two minutes after we start we're dead, but after a while they finally agreed to mix it up with us WVR"

"How did you do I" asked?

His only response, somewhat dejected, somewhat admiring in tone "the F-22 is an impressive plane"

I think that answers this thread...,

superior power loading, superior wing loading, higher G limit (with according rate and radius benefits), and TVC......WVR F-14 has no chance.

supreamly low RCS, AESA, reduced IR emissions (if IRST was pointed directly at raptor it might see it beyond range of AMRAAM, even if IRST could guide Phoenix, it would NOT be able to pick it out of the blue doing a wide angle scan, and I would not doubt an F-22 being able to target and down an AIM-54 with and AIM-120)....BVR Turkey still has no chance

All this and I am even a crazy F-14 Fanboy!! Thanks for the post bf-fly good read.

"May the Force be with you"

Can you believe this thread has been going on and on for almost 2 years?! These "A/C vs A/C" threads go on forever...lol. I'm not a very big fan of the -14. I'm not even that big of a fan of the -22 for that matter (yes, I know, blasphemy), but hands down, the Raptor would own it. Time for a new topic I think.

While, I don't think for a second a Tomcat could beat a Raptor. That said, I've have been told the IRST system on the F-14D was "very" capable!!!! Yet, public information is hard to get? Maybe its still classified????

Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

F-22 vs. F-14? Would there be any competition?