Forum: Military Aircraft of the Cold War

http://www.talkingproud.us/ImagesMilita ... akeoff.jpg

What kind of fuel would these B-52's be using that produces black exhaust? Are BUFF's equipped to fly night missions? These questions arose when I was talking to a friend about the movie By Dawn's Early Light.
Thanks! Very Happy

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I don't know if the BUFF fleet converted to JP-8 but the smoke is as much the engines as the fuel. The B-52 was originally built for a mission considered to akin to suicide--over the pole to destroy the USSR with nothing to come home to therefore smoke trails were not a concern.

Yes. Night ops were never a problem in the bomber fleet and all U.S. combat aircraft are night capable, now even more so with FLIR and NVG's

Yes, I think the RCS for a BUFF is on the huge side (100?)! So it is the combustion part of the engine that causes the black? Is that a function of design or wear and tear?I have to look up the thrust of those engines......

Last edited by Lightndattic on Nov 29, 2006 - 07:25 PM; edited 1 time in total

The BUFF's in the pic were G models. They had the older J57 turbojets with water injection used on takeoff with about 13,000lbs of thrust. Those older engines smoked badly- this was before engine technology advanced enough in design and materials to produce low smoke engines. The water injection used on takeoff made the smoke worse. The newer H models with the TF33 turbofans smoke somewhat less, but because they still use the same core as the J57, there's still some smoke.

When my dad worked on them at Barksdale back during the SAC days, he'd let me know when the end of the annual ORI would be when they did their alert scramble. I'd be sitting just outside the perimeter fence when they tookoff. Imagine 12 B-52's fully loaded trying to take off as fast as possible. It would deafen you and block out the sun for about 15 minutes.

One funny thing I noticed was that the later planes seemed to take off earlier and earlier. When I asked a couple of pilots about it they said that each plane ahead of them produces about a 20kt headwind for the next plane in line. After about the 4th or 5th plane took off, those behind them had an additional 80kts or so headwind to help them lift off sooner.

The only real problem I had with that movie was the female co-pilot. This was back before women were allowed to fly combat aircraft.

Arctus wrote:

I don't know if the BUFF fleet converted to JP-8 but the smoke is as much the engines as the fuel. The B-52 was originally built for a mission considered to akin to suicide--over the pole to destroy the USSR with nothing to come home to therefore smoke trails were not a concern.

Yes. Night ops were never a problem in the bomber fleet and all U.S. combat aircraft are night capable, now even more so with FLIR and NVG's

I know all the aircraft at Barksdale (B-52, KC-135, KC-10, A-10) converted to JP8 in the early 90's. There was a lot of grumbling about it in my Dad's squadron, but I don't remember exactly what about.

Night ops were not a problem once the FLIR and LLTV chin pods were installed in the 80's. As part of their nuclear mission, the pilots would close the flash curtains over the cockpit windows and fly just by the FLIR/LLTV displays in the cockpit. At the time those were relatively massive 10 or 12 inch screens for both pilots and both navigators downstairs.

Light - I would LOVE to see 12 B-52's take of. In the SAC movie with Rock Hudson, they show that. What did you Dad do on B-52's? My very good friend Tom liked Rebecca in BDEL because she was hot - maybe that's why she was there!

Night ops weren't a problem in the BUFF. They performed night missions throughout Vietnam (Arc Light, Linebacker II). The black smoke was from water injection on the Gs. Water injection went out with the turbofans. The F-105, and the old turbojet powered KC-135s had it too. Loud, and put out lots of black smoke.

The BUFF also has a pneumatic starter, which can start all 8 engines at the same time. It was seldom used, except on 7 minute nuke alerts. Made a lot of smoke.

"By Dawn's Early Light"...an ok flick. Yeah, having a female in the cockpit of a SAC bomber made for a noticeable goof. That never took place in reality. By the time females were allowed in BUFFs, ACC had taken over bomber ops by then.

"The Day After" was good, up until the nukes exploded. It was a POS after that. It has a good sequence of actual AF stock footage, showing the Looking Glass, BUFF crews scrambling, and Minuteman III crews about to turn the keys. Avoid the part where Farmer Fred and his rugrats suffer from radiation poisoning if possible.

Oh boy, post 1700. Shocked

I really need a Mike Foxtrot hobby. Laughing

serino wrote:

Light - I would LOVE to see 12 B-52's take of. In the SAC movie with Rock Hudson, they show that. What did you Dad do on B-52's? My very good friend Tom liked Rebecca in BDEL because she was hot - maybe that's why she was there!

He was the senior crew chief for B-52G serial 57-6491 nicknamed Lil' Patches. One year he won glossy Eagle for best maintained B-52 in the USAF. She was one of the few to keep the daylight camo (greens/brown with a white bottom) up until she was retired to the Boneyard.

I was there in '89 for a week with my Rc (62-4138) and got to see the alert launch. Quite impressive the amount of smoke and noise!

TC wrote:

Oh boy, post 1700. Shocked

I really need a Mike Foxtrot hobby. Laughing

that places you at #5 on the total post board... Cool

Just a few comments:

1. The majority of the black smoke was due to the water injection. KC-135A pictures from the same era show a similar smoke trail but just half as much in volume (4 fewer engines).
2. JP8 as a rule actually burns cleaner than JP4 and is used AF wide now for vitually all a/c.
3. The B-52 did have pneumatic starters but the system being referred to for alerts were the cartridge (cart) starters. This was a coffee can sized container of black powder that was installed on each engine. Press the buttons and all engines start simultaneously (sort of). The movie "Flight of the Phoenix" (original one with Jimmy Stewart) shows a similar system. Many other AF a/c had cart starters on them too. You could only use cart starts so many times before you had to do some inspections and cleaning. Not a popular system with maintainers - especially when one had a hang-fire.

You are correct about maintenance not liking the cart start system! It required cleaning after every use as well as doing a continuity check and impingement tube inspection prior to each use. Our planes had just #3 engine equipped with one, then ran that engine up to 90% and used the engine supplied bleed air to start the other 3 engines. The buff had one cart start equipped engine per pod and was able to get up and running much faster.

I ran across a couple of those in a dumpster on base once. I used to sit on this one dumpster that never seemed to be used for anything and watch the planes fly around the pattern. It got to be so often that several of the SPs that patrolled the flightline, including a colonel out in his staff car, knew my name and would talk to me if they had the time. One time I came out the the dumpster and noticed the lids were open and some stuff had been dumped in including what looked like several white coffee cans. i pulled one out and was reading it when one of the cops came by and asked me what I had. When I showed him, he told me to head on home. I found out later that they called EOD to come out and take those LIVE cartridge starters out of the dumpster and dispose of them properly.

Heads rolled for that one I'm sure.

I don't ever remember seeing white ones. All the ones I saw were black. Doesn't mean there weren't white ones - I just never saw any.

falconfixer860261 wrote:

I don't ever remember seeing white ones. All the ones I saw were black. Doesn't mean there weren't white ones - I just never saw any.

The unopened cans I saw where flat white with black lettering on them. They had to be old because the oxidized white paint was on my hands for several hours after trying to wash it off.

I've got a couple of good stories from sitting on that dumpster watching airplanes as a kid. One involving the secret service and another involving the only KC-10 ever lost in USAF service.

Good times.

Forum: Military Aircraft of the Cold War

B-52 questions