Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

Amazed to see this...this integration began last year and was decided last year.

-Check

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Yes, we (im a maintainer with the VAANG) are very happy to be part of this new and exciting airframe. We will miss the 16, and as we slowly phase it out and turn over our jets to various and sundry places, we continue to move in piece meal down to Langley to support the 22 mission.

Like all new children, the 22 is having its share of growing pains. I myself have worked on the F-111E and EF, as well as the F16 Block 40/42 and now the Raptor. This aircraft logistically will still continue to develop and work through its adolescence. But performance wise we hear nothing but praise daily from the Pilots, from butter bars up to our guard pilots with 1500-3000 hours and weapons school graduates. They simply love its superior stand off capability, and unlike the 15 it replaces, can actually hold its own close up in the 5 mile and closer arena. Which is something that makes the Viper Pilots very very happy. Although the 15 pilots are finally having to learn how to grow a pair as a result of this capability.

But I digress, the expected "What where the engineers thinking when they designed this" has actually been minimal. A few odds and ends, but overall a very well thought out design, at least from a maintainers standpoint.

As far as the "LO" goes, I think its probably safe to say that like the F117 before it, logistics will eventually meet practicality in daily flying, come war time it will prove its weight in gold and bring our assets home safely.

Munitions, Loading exactly (Im a 462 / 2W1 ) is ... interesting. But the capabilities will grow in time as well, and practice and the quality of the career fields leaders will continue to improve on the loading and operational surety of assigned weapons.

But first and foremost, even in the face of an ever shrinking capable opposing force, we are setting the bar in the A/A arena. Both with load capacity and ECM. Granted there are not that many Air Forces out there with equipment either in use or on the drawing boards that financially, fiscally, politically or technologically can stand up to even Block 42's/50's, 15E's, 18 Super Hornets that even in the bleakest of futures stands to oppose the US. At least not in significant numbers.

So I suppose you can say that overall its a bit over kill. But keep this in mind, its better to move ahead to defend against the future, than it is to save money and solidify what you have, in hopes that no one else will attempt to become Air Force #1.

Long live the Raptor, God Bless the Viper, and the Aardvark (D/E/F)is still the best A/G platform ever flown for long range precision attack. Screw the 117.

[Link pending approval] all these jets ever do anyway is clear the skies so the Warthog can go in and win the ground war from Angels 5 anyway Razz

Hi HatTrick

Thank you for your post. I'm guessing you recently joined the VA guard as you did not note working the block 30's. However do you know if any of the 16's have left Richmond?

Also, although the 192nd FW will own no F-22s I hope you guys have an aircraft marked 192nd FW/149th FS!

Last edited by HatTrick on Nov 09, 2006 - 08:46 PM; edited 5 times in total

Thank you for the warm welcome. Actually I did join team VA in 1992. So yeah I worked the 30's all the way up to the recent upgrades. Spent some time in Aviano with the Camera pod, and watched the Targeting pods do their thing out of Quatar, although NY got all the glory and dropped from our tail #'s just a week after the majority of the unit rotated back home. Although some were able to stay back in support of the split AEF and did grab a little glory.

In the end we still got the nose art Laughing

on a 192 jet. ( IE the Bomb drop symbol)

And as of today, yes, we are still flying 16's daily out of Richmond, and flying 22's out of Langley. So the 192 Patch flies two airframes at the moment. Which is nice. But every couple of weeks, 16's leave and don't come back. Each one is a little sad. We have a proud heritage going all the way back as the Blue Nose Bastards of Bodney. Major Preddy as our leader. And from P-47's and 38's to B26, F86 105's A-7's (Another beautiful airplane) and on to the F16, but they all flew our colors and the VA on the tail.

There is unfortunately no official plans or word that there will be a "Langley" jet with a VA on the tail. These active duty folks here at Langley love their airplanes, so trying to pry one from their hands long enough to tag it with our colors may prove difficult.

The life of a guardsman is different in one major aspect from Active Duty folks tho, and thats your average guardsman has been with his/her unit their entire career. And neither we nor the active duty folks are here for the [Link pending approval] we are here because we love what we do. That goes for the maintainers and the pilots. However, active duty folks, as soon as they get used to a place and settle in, they have to move on. So im looking forward to seeing how the VA ANG will effect things being that our people wont PCS after a few years, but will "lay hands" on the same jets for years and years.

But with the pilots, the nice thing about guard pilots, especially units who fly late model upgrades to their specific airframes, is they get to pick and choose who becomes one of them. Active pilots can get out of AD, get a nice paying civilian job, and still be a fighter jockey on the weekends. So its an attractive offer, but needless to say, an over abundance of candidates. So folks like the 192nd / 149FS get to pick and choose, and traditionally its high hour, weapons school graduate types who are the cream dela cream. That goes hand in hand with the AD pilots here at Langley, who are ambitious and excited about the new airframe as well as the best the Air Force has to offer. Its a nice mix of experience and energy. These guys are working out daily just how to best fly and fight with this airplane.

And now that we are part of the F22 program, we look even more attractive to the best in the business. So yeah, those 94th/27th pilots are going to be something to reckon with in the coming years getting infused with the Guard Pilots. Our boys will have a wealth of combat and normal flying hours, multi airframe experience and high hours along with weapons school instructor and graduate experience. Combine that with Langleys expect nothing but the best mentality, and you have a bucket load of outstanding stick actuators. ... er pilots flying the newest jet in the inventory. We cant wait to sink our teeth into something. Ok, enough bragging Cool

I look forward to many more visits here to not only talk F22, but to relive the 16 days one story at a time.

192 FW VA ANG
Weapons

Hey, HatTrick,

I was at Langley in September interviewing a bunch of Guard pilots and maintainers for the F-22 Update video, and I was wondering (although I didn't ask at the time) ... will there be any Guard participation from the 192nd at Red Flag this year? At least in Raptors? Seems to me the story is not just that you guys are flying with the 1FW guys, but that you also train side-by-side.

And any volunteers to go up to Elmendorf and join the 525th when they stand up?

You guys are awesome...keep up the good work!

Thanks for the update HatTrick

dan1701a has some good questions that I'd like to see answered as well, but they are difficult questions. I visited the 149th FS a few times, got to meet up with Ed Kelleher who I still chat with every once in a while. Ed's been out of the service for a while but he still tries to follow what everyone out at the 192nd FW is up to.

My question is where are the F-16s going, ie units? I've heard 121st FS.

Good Morning,

Actually they are going several places. Where the actual tail numbers will end up is not sure. Let me get some coffee in me and ask around this morning, I can probably get some reasonable answers before noon.

[Link pending approval]#Anchor-Richmond-31709

Pretty much sums up what is happening to the jets, gives a good listing or there designated destinations.

And for the Nose art question, it wasnt nose art as much as bomb painted to show that the jets had dropped in action.

And thanks for the heads up in the note.

HatTrick wrote:

and unlike the 15 it replaces, can actually hold its own close up in the 5 mile and closer arena.

I would say "DOMINATING" in close against 15s and 16s? Wink

oh no no no [Link pending approval] you see, F15's are held together with Bailing wire and super glue. They are big simply to hold two engines because the second tier types cant be trusted with just one. The rest of the room is for their ego. The radar is superior especially at range, simply because 15 pilots dont do well with [Link pending approval] "Dog Fighting".

Now 16 [Link pending approval] they are gods of the air. Smile

and all the thrust vectoring in the world and an extra engine isnt going to save the 22 from a 3000 hour 35 year olds at the stick of a block 40+ with guns and 9's. Not as long as all 22 pilots are rookie 22 pilots. The airplane just hasnt been around long enough. But im just blowing smoke at this point. You should hear me talk about Atlanta Falcons [Link pending approval] then the crap really gets deep Smile

[Link pending approval] This is all in good fun and humor for those who may take offense.

HatTrick wrote:

oh no no no no... you see, F15's are held together with Bailing wire and super glue. They are big simply to hold two engines because the second tier types cant be trusted with just one. The rest of the room is for their ego. The radar is superior especially at range, simply because 15 pilots dont do well with actual.. "Dog Fighting".

Now 16 pilots.. they are gods of the air. Smile

and all the thrust vectoring in the world and an extra engine isnt going to save the 22 from a 3000 hour 35 year olds at the stick of a block 40+ with guns and 9's. Not as long as all 22 pilots are rookie 22 pilots. The airplane just hasnt been around long enough. But im just blowing smoke at this point. You should hear me talk about Atlanta Falcons football.. then the crap really gets deep Smile

P.S. This is all in good fun and humor for those who may take offense.

LOL!

Don't worry, I got it from the get go.

Very Happy

HatTrick wrote:

So yeah I worked the 30's all the way up to the recent upgrades. Spent some time in Aviano with the Camera pod, and watched the Targeting pods do their thing out of Quatar, although NY got all the glory and dropped from our tail #'s just a week after the majority of the unit rotated back home. Although some were able to stay back in support of the split AEF and did grab a little glory.

My old man says thanks for the airplanes, though 1/2 the tail numbers were from NY too; they were just waiting for the real fighter jocks from SYR to show up. Laughing

Quote:

There is unfortunately no official plans or word that there will be a "Langley" jet with a VA on the tail. These active duty folks here at Langley love their airplanes, so trying to pry one from their hands long enough to tag it with our colors may prove difficult.

I've heard rumors about one airplane with the 192nd flash on it. But I have also heard tail numbers with 2 units on it, similar to the way the reserve units do it.

I am a Technician Crew Chief in Richmond right now and I do not know of but a few that actually want to make the move. Most of us have been active duty early in our careers and we left active duty for a reason. Now the powers to be want to fly the latest and greatest (makes me throw up) and they do not care who's life they ruin or mess up to get what they want( I think they call these people rank getters). I, for one have already turned in my letter saying NO I am not going, and I know of about 6-7 others that have done the same, and some others that will probably not go at all. I have heard that they intially only planned to lose about 20 percent or so, but in reallity it is more like 60-70 percent not going. I know of guys with over 15 years experience not going at all. Most of the Crew Chiefs that have went down have very little experience except for a few and I know of one that has already quit because of the BS for the Guard guys. I am not saying it is all bad but it is not definitely all good. Look at the integration at Robins with the JSTARS. Oh and by the way I was in Qatar with NY and all the action took place while NY was there and yes half the jets were from each unit and some of the bombs dropped were in VA tails, but most were in the NY tails as they controlled which jets flew in the prime slots. My jet dropped 5 bombs but their wing jet dropped about 10 or more.

Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

192nd FW/149th FS first Guard F-22 unit