Forum: F-16 versus XYZ

Active Member Joined: Jan 10, 2005 - 07:58 AM Posts: 137

Its a mismatch but still, I'd love to see the Viper vs a piston driven acro plane. I picked the Extra because its well known and is one of the top performers in its class.

Just to help the discussion:
1. Assume the fight is not with radar or missiles. All visual range (like those top gun schools that use laser guns to denote a kill).
2. Assume pilots of equal experience in their respective planes.
3. Everything else is up to your imagination!

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Last edited by hansundfranz on Sep 18, 2006 - 02:06 PM; edited 1 time in total

The extra has much smaller turn radius and much higher turn rate. As long as you assume the guy in the extra sees the f16 all our viper driver can hope for is a head on pass.

With laser rays (no TOF, no bullet drop etc) and no radar the guy on the smaller plane has the advanatge. He sees his opponent first and longer and his target is bigger.

If you make it a bit more real and the F16 (still totally without a radar) has MAJOR advanatge.
it has a much more lethal gun system and its much more solid, much harder to kill then a litte aerobatics plane.
In addition the extra has no chance to intercept an F16 ever. the F16 can do whatever it wants on the battlefield. The F16 can pick its fight at will attack without takeing risks.
He´ll just approach the Extra from its rear quarter and hose the f*cker if he´s not evading. If the extra pilot spots the F16 and starts to haul his nose aound our f16 pilot can simply pull up and refuse to fight.

Ether that or he can just fly by at about 100 feet at mach many Wink

.

It would be hell to try to outmaneuver a 300s if its pilot was dead set on driving you nuts.

I'm not sure what the corner airspeed of a 300S is, but I've seen those things flying and it's just nutty to watch.

I think the 300s would definitely win in turn rate and turn radius...but at speeds that may be dificult for an F-16
to duplicate without stalling.

IIRC, the 300S is stressed to safely take maneuvers that peak at plus or minus TWELVE GEES.

SQUARE OUTSIDE LOOPS. Yikes.

The F-16 pilot would be a fool to try to turn with the 300S in its own performance envelope. It isn't even
in the realm of possibility.

But he could take down the 300S without firing a shot. Just get some space, go supersonic, and blast by
it at mach 1.4 or so, within a few hundred feet. The shock wave should bust up the 300S's structure
well enough to force an emergency landing at the very least.

Never fight on your enemy's terms unless he's an idiot.

CJ

If he can keep sight of the extra during such a supersonic turn (might be difficult)

Forum Veteran Joined: Nov 07, 2003 - 09:12 PM Posts: 901

parrothead wrote:

Ether that or he can just fly by at about 100 feet at mach many Wink

.

cool parrothead. Reminds me of a feedback you have initiated before.

cheers,

I'd rather take on the F-16 in an Su-26 Smile

its a better aerobatic machine.

I was talking to Paul Bonhome at the weekend (dont know who he is? check out the red bull air race series; or the red bull matadors)... he was on about Su-26/Extra pilots cannot be compared to fighter pilots and/or their aircraft.

The big difference he said after actually going up in a Jaguar on a flight (usually flys an Su-26) is that where Aerobatic pilots experience more G it is for a fraction of a second and only that... the pilots can handle that. However he said in a fast jet, the G is sustained for up to a few minutes... which he said takes alot more out of the airframe and the pilot.

Went on to say how fast jet pilots are physcially superior and that the Extra+Sukhoi cannot withstand sustained G at anything like the rate of a fast jet.

So after me waffling on.... if its a sustained "fight" the extra will not stand a chance lol.

Andy

I would pick the F-16. Why? Because the Extra don't have any weapons. Smile

Pumpkin wrote:

parrothead wrote:

Ether that or he can just fly by at about 100 feet at mach many Wink

.

cool parrothead. Reminds me of a feedback you have initiated before.

cheers,

Yep, it reminded me of that, too Laughing

! I'm trying to be a bit more calm, cool, collected, and tolerant these days Smile

.

Quote:

withstand sustained G at anything like the rate of a fast jet.

So after me waffling on.... if its a sustained "fight" the extra will not stand a chance lol.

Of course you are right the aerobatics plane has no chance however, it does not even need to be close in sustained gs to match the sustained turn rate of a fighter jet.

A F16 turns best somewhere around 350 knts.

The extra at around 150 knts.
The F16 flys 350/ 150 = 2 1/3 faster then the Extra

if both fly with the same sustaiend turn rate they will fly a full circle in the same time and of course the turn radius of the F16 will also be 2 1/3 larger

a=w^2*r turn rate W is constant in our calculation, radius is different by Factor 2.33 and so is resulting gs

If the F16 needs to sustain 7.5g the extra would need only
7.5 / 2.33 = 3.2 g

Active Member Joined: Jan 10, 2005 - 07:58 AM Posts: 137

boff180 wrote:

I'd rather take on the F-16 in an Su-26 Smile

its a better aerobatic machine.

I was talking to Paul Bonhome at the weekend (dont know who he is? check out the red bull air race series; or the red bull matadors)... he was on about Su-26/Extra pilots cannot be compared to fighter pilots and/or their aircraft.

The big difference he said after actually going up in a Jaguar on a flight (usually flys an Su-26) is that where Aerobatic pilots experience more G it is for a fraction of a second and only that... the pilots can handle that. However he said in a fast jet, the G is sustained for up to a few minutes... which he said takes alot more out of the airframe and the pilot.

Went on to say how fast jet pilots are physcially superior and that the Extra+Sukhoi cannot withstand sustained G at anything like the rate of a fast jet.

So after me waffling on.... if its a sustained "fight" the extra will not stand a chance lol.

Andy

I never even considered sustained g-load as a factor. Okay so thats why the aerobatic guys can pull 9 or 10Gs without a suit.

Yeah this was a mismatch and pretty useless in real life but the idea came after seeing a picture of Patty Wagstaff's Extra flying inverted lead with an F-14 (think it was from Cleveland or Oshkosh, I forget). Of course the thought progressed to "What if she decided to turn on him..."

F-16 would simply run the extra 300 out of energy. If the F-16 pilot keeps his fight vertical, what can the extra 300 do? Example: F-16 is diving vertically on extra 300. Even if the 300 turns, the F-16 pilot just has to kick rudder or move the stick a tiny bit to keep the 300 in the gunsight.

Forum: F-16 versus XYZ

F-16 versus Extra 300