Forum: Air Power

shocktroop wrote:

Quote:

In 1982 we used an impressive new way to deal with SAMs. Send in UAVs followed by Vipers loaded with HARMs, the SAM radars lock on the UAVs and the Vipers fire their HARMs- problem solved.

The birds used by IAF for SEAD over the Bekaa Valley in 1982 were F-4s, not Vipers. The Vipers didn't had HARM capability back then. F-16s were used in conjunction with F-15 to provide cover for the F-4s, and Kfirs.

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And were the HARMs or shrikes?

IAF used US made Shrikes and also used Mavericks without warheads to take out targets. Interestingly relying on their kinetic energy (Maverick) to destroy enemy vehicles. The F-4s carried Shrike and Mavs`.

Sorry, I ment Shrikes, we used F-4s with Shrikes for SEAD missions back then. Vipers were used in the air-to-air role more and scored some impressive kills against the Syrians, including the downing of the first MiG-23.

shocktroop wrote:

Quote:

Vipers were used in the air-to-air role more and scored some impressive kills against the Syrians, including the downing of the first MiG-23.

Not exactly. The first MiG-23 kill was scored in Nov. 1979 by an Egyptian MiG-21MF against a Lybian MiG-23MS using an AIM-9P.

As far as IAF is concerned, the first MiG-23 kills (2 BNs) were on April 20, 1982 - scored by F-15s from the 133rd Squadron. Additional MiG-23MS were shot down by F-15s on June 6, 1982. The first F-16 victory against a Flogger came only on June 7.

Quote:

Not exactly. The first MiG-23 kill was scored in Nov. 1979 by an Egyptian MiG-21MF against a Lybian MiG-23MS using an AIM-9P.

As far as IAF is concerned, the first MiG-23 kills (2 BNs) were on April 20, 1982 - scored by F-15s from the 133rd Squadron. Additional MiG-23MS were shot down by F-15s on June 6, 1982. The first F-16 victory against a Flogger came only on June 7.

Thanks for the info RoAF, guess some of the sources I read wern't true.

shocktroop wrote:

Most of our air losses during the Yom Kippur War were because of SAMs, especially the SA-6. But the SA-6 only gave a surprise in the begining.

Actually while a lot of graphic video was taken on kills of IDF aircraft with SAM-6's, the SAM-6's greatest contribution was to cause the IDF aircraft to dive to the ground where the ZSU-23-4's chewed them up.
IDF aircraft did not have any jamming equipment to deal with these weapon systems.
Now, the US Army first operated the Hawk Missile in 1959 and USMC in 1960, it uses CW radar for terminal guidance. Yet in 1973 the US still did not have any jamming equipment to counter this threat when intelligence first found out the Soviets were developing a SAM system that uses CW radars. F-4's from the USAF in Germany were sent to Israel to replace the F-4's lost in combat. These F-4's had jamming equipment that dealt with the PD search radars.
The A-4 Skyhawk did most of the ground attack role and suffered the most from the ZSU-23-4's.

shocktroop wrote:

One of the IAF Phantoms thats was returning to base after being hit by a SA-6

Actually the secret was almost releast when the day before the start of the Yum Kippur War in 1973, an IDF ELINT C-130 was shot down by an Egyptian SAM-6!
AW&ST did some excellent specials issues covering the conflict starting 12/03/73. This issue was on the war from the perspective of the Israeli AF. Subsequent issues dealt with the Egyptian AF and other aspects of that conflict. This was the first time the EAF was still fighting at the end of the war.

shocktroop wrote:

The Ruskiess got some pretty impresive new SAMs, the S-300PMUs and S-400s, that use phased arrays aswell.

Yes but, Israel has evidently found a way to defeat it. The IDF/AF two years ago started offering a course to countries on how to defeat the S-300! Turkey was the first customer, when Russia said it was going to ship some S-300's to Greece.

shocktroop wrote:

Vipers were used in the air-to-air role more and scored some impressive kills against the Syrians, including the downing of the first MiG-23.

According to "ACIG" (www.acig.org) the early kills of Syrian MiG.-23's.
04/20/82 -two MiG.-23MS's were killed by two IDF F-15A's
06/06/82 -a MiG.-23MS was killed by an IDF F-15
06/07/82 -two MiG.-23MS's were killed by two IDF F-15A's
06/07/82 -a MiG.-23MS was killed by an IDF F-16A's

-ACIG Journal
-Middle East Database
-Israeli Air-to-Air Victories since 1974
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/cat_index_22.shtml
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_270.shtml

Adrian

shocktroop wrote:

In 1982 we used an impressive new way to deal with SAMs. Send in UAVs followed by Vipers loaded with HARMs, the SAM radars lock on the UAVs and the Vipers fire their HARMs- problem solved. SAMs are useless with no radars.

1982, IAF Vipers did not launch any HARMS, Phantoms did that. Vipers flew top cover for Rhinos.

Forum: Air Power

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