Forum: Military Aircraft of the Cold War

No one has mentioned the F-4 Phantom II? Can?t believe it, what a workhorse it was. I know, not a fast/sleek as other jets, but this thing delivered the payload.

I started out in 1982 on F-16A models, then I went on the F-4E/G for 3 years, and I thought I was going to hate it. But, I?ll tell you, as a loader, and if you want to load, the F-4 is it! You name it, we loaded it.

All around fighter!

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I'm a Phantom Phanatic. I mentioned that I grew up in love with that aircraft in the the "other aircraft you're fanatical about" thread. A quarter of all the model kits I own are Phantoms. When I was around 8 I got my picture taken in the front seat of a Phantom at the March AFB air show. That's one of my prized possesions. And, I used to be in the Sea Cadet program at El Toro and it was worth all the crappy marching just to watch the RF-4s fly out there, but I only got to see them for a couple of months before they retired them. . . Crying or Very sad

Well of course. Great aircraft. When I was little I tried to get every possible public consumption story on the jet. The Vietnam history of this airframe is amazing. ( Robin Olds, Richie, Cuningham/Driscol etc etc ), Just as the spirit in those dynamic people is a living thing, the jet sure gives off that image of something more than just cold steel. Even more cool is its arvial in the IDF where in the War of Attrition ( Pre October War ) almost completely dominated the Soviet Advisors in Egypt in their MiG-21s ( no restrictive ROE ) Got to hang with the 10TRW in Alconbury and the RF-4Cs and that was a fun operation to see. Too bad todays airframes are getting old. You can put all kinds of fancy gear in it but age is taking it's toll. The jet definately upholds the image of a combat weapon. I like photos of the USMC jets from the Nam period, loaded up like crazy with a variety of cool air to ground stuff.

Ahhhhh the lowly Phantom.........they looked mean even on the ground. And when you launched it out you knew you had done something. I could go on and on but I won't. The guys who worked on them know what I'm talking and the ones who didn't never will.
check six
stik

Well said stik!

The Phantom demonstrating that even a brick can fly if thrown hard enough.

I like the Phantom and all, but on the Navy/Marine side of it I always liked the Crusader more. Even if it was a little slower and less inclined to ground ordanance, theres something about 4 20mm cannon that is just sweet.

Even if guns often jammed because of Gs?

Good point. That was an F-8 quirk. Must have been fixed at sometime later? One hard turn and the gun loading could be goofed.

I did not find anything proving that it was fixed, at least in US service. It is strange, though, that the French Navy (which used its crusaders till the end of 90's) never mentioned any problem with the guns. However, I think that the French crusaders were never used in air-to-air combat, thus not taking a lot of Gs.

Even with the potential problem that jamming presented, I remember reading that the F-8 enjoyed a better kill/loss ratio than the F-4

I'm with Stik. There is hardly a more menacing sight than seeing an F-4, especially when it's loaded down with all the firepower it can carry. The sound it makes on takeoff, and when it flies over you at high speed is unmistakeable. The Phabulous Phantom was truly an awesome jet.

Wildcat wrote:

Even if guns often jammed because of Gs?

Same M39A2 Cannons as the F-5. Its funny to find out how many planes had problems with there guns, the A-4 for example couldnt use theirs cause the vibration would shake apart all the ECM electronics. Besides better a gun that breaks sometimes then no gun at all.

Drew

Well, you are in trouble when you have no gun, and you're missiles don't work correctly. That was the problem the Phantom had. They ended up slapping a SUU-23 on the Phantoms in Nam, and it was a pretty good stopgap. One major problem though: it created a LOT of drag. BTW, does anyone have any record of a Phantom downing a MiG with the SUU-23? I know some E models have shot down MiGs with the M-61, but I wasn't sure about the 23.

Thought the SUU-23 was only on the C/Ds, a stopgap until they fielded the Es with the internal M-61.

Yes. You are correct habu2. I should have clearified a little more. That concept was a stopgap until the arrival of the E model, of course, containing the internal M-61. But I was unsure if a C or D model ever shot down a MiG with the SUU-23. I've seen no information indicating such a shootdown.

Forum: Military Aircraft of the Cold War

What? No F-4?