Forum: Military Aircraft of the Cold War

Thanks to 'ysslah' I just found out that there was/is an A-37 demo team.

This plane is very dear to my crusted, old heart. You see, one always has a special place in one's heart for the first plane that one has flown in combat.

The Super Tweet, Dragonfly, Thunder Squeak, etc. was a perfect plane for counter-insurgency and special ops in low-threat environments.

Keep this thread going and we can share some really neat war stories and urban legends.

To wit:

Obi-gums was the only jock to deadstick a 'jet' to a safe landing during the entire Vietnam War!
The plane is/was so over-powered that we cruised and loitered on one engine to conserve fuel.
Despite USAF rules about 25000 feet max altitude unless pressurized, a few of us got the thing over 40,000 feet and were still climbing!
We could carry more ordnance than the original T-37 even weighed!

And much more...

Visit our website: http://a-37.org/

I know that it ain't all that current, but what the hell!

later,

F-16.net Sponsor

Cool plane. Got one here at the museum. Still viable for COIN today with the following mod's put on it.

-Put flare/chaff box setups on it like what are on the HH-60 etc. Gives you some fighting chance against newer generation shoulder fired SAMs.

-Paint it flat black and have it work at night ( for the MANPAD reason above ) and AAA/Small arms. Make the right seater a sensor operator / FAC. A sensor camera/ball on it somewhere that sees at night real nice and can also laser spot and laser designate for a fast mover. ( Just rip off the sensor pack / laser setup from a new Predator UAV / UCAV Very Happy

-Night Vision Google equipment ( might be a bit of money as you might have to redo the cockpit to make it NVG friendly. )

*Stuff to consider hanging from it for different missions...

-Plenty of 3rd party gunpacks out there to stick on it so I don't care which one you pick just as long as you like it.

-Give it the ability to fire the Hellfire laser AT missile, including the theromobaric Hellfire that was used by the USMC in OIF. Send it though the window of a building and it fries stuff, until a crispy but doesn't blow up. Shocked

-Napalm, small frag / GP bombs, and CBUs ( PC CBUs where there aren't any UXBs ) Leaflet CBUs, Tear Gas CBUs, FLASH BANG CBUs, PA system pack so you can yell at your adoring public below and tell them you love them... ( and denounce traitors in their ranks... ) Twisted Evil

-Rocket pods-

-Parachute Flares for night ops

-A datalink sensor pack to do ELINT/COMINT/SIGINT missions.

---- of course good avionics on it so it can log on and be part of a netcentric COIN network with all the team communicating via voice and email.

-- Air to Air version of the Stinger to take out helos and small planes.

Have fun Very Happy

Yeah but how to you mask the sound of that whistle of an engine? Wink

Gums! That's an awesome little jet! I just acquired 3 models of it myself! Very Happy

Btw...it was the Portugese that flew them in a demo team.

Whew!

Great responses.

More to chew on:

First, the noise. The J-85's sound like a vacuum cleaner - no more whistle, and very quiet on the ground taxiing about
Ordnance: Presently can and has carried all kindsa rocket pods and linear CBU dispensers. I personally dropped 'gas' on a few missions using a vertical CBU dispenser (CBU-22, I believe). Also carries SUU-25 flare pod. Also SU-11 minigun pods. 4 stations capable of 750 pound eggs, CBU canisters, nape, etc. 2 more 500 pound stations and two more 250 pound stations (total of 8 stations). Internal mini-gun (sad, but an A-37 shot down some missionaries in South America a few years back).

Blatant 'come-on'/preview of great war stories follow:

I carried a flare dispenser and SU-11 and 4 CBU pods one night over the Trail. Used the flares to 'blind' a 12.7 mm gun by dropping them so low that they ignited about 1000 feet above the gun. Then made another pass with the CBU and BLOOIE! No more gun or gunner.
We painted our planes flat black up at Plieku. We were evaluating the plane as a FAC and for night armed recce. I was in the initial unit, Combat Dragon, hence some weird, but neat missions.
One guy carried 4 gun pods and destroyed a caterpillar working on the Trail using his 4 pods plus the nose mini-gun. 500 rounds per second will do some hurt, even with 7.72mm rounds.
We tried 'starlight' scopes with a troop in right seat (we normally flew solo, as other ejection seat was a good supply source for a plane fielded in limited quantitie first year). Starlight scope was not effective except straight ahead for initial detection. A good idea, though with technology we have today.
Hellfire requires beaucoup avionics boxes - not a player. Sidewinder goes on real easy, and original model could carry it on outboard stations. No 'slave' capability, but all other features work, so a super defensive capability, even offensive capability against druggies, helo's, etc.

And many more war stories about the "Smallest fighter, Fastest gun"

out,

Don't know about Portugal but ysslah is right - South Korean team flies A-37s.

Quote:

(sad, but an A-37 shot down some missionaries in South America a few years back)

Gums, I don't mean to trivialize that tragedy but here's a bit of trivia for you: A Cessna C-35 (Citation V) variant operated by the CIA vectored the Peruvian Cessna A-37B to shoot down the Cessna 185 floatplane. You won't hear Cessna bragging about that one... Sad

Wow! I never thought I'd get to hear from a Combat Dragon pilot! Keep the stories coming Gums!
The A-37 is an underrated airplane to be sure. I know the YAT-37D was tested with Sidewinders, but they never went into service.

Great stuff as always Gums. Specially the nite ops. Wow ! Cool

( My fantasy A-37 of today would require lots of cool new avionics to make it more fun so fancy sensors and the Hellfire would be my fun trick. ) Hey, what El Jefe wants, El Jefe gets Very Happy

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As for the A-37 shoot down of a civil plane down south: Pilot error on the guy that got zapped. The country in question is known for shooting down a lot of drug interdiction efforts, and bags a good number each year. Sad for the people, but he should have known the flying environment and didn't study up. It is the same as flying in a new area you have never been in before, you learn ALL the possible hazards. No excuses. Flying in 3rd world countries isn't something that is going to help you achieve the goal of dieing in your sleep of old age. I'm not a pilot, and I know the Peruvian shoot down history. I wouldn't private fly in several countries without first having the number of the ops desk of one of the flying squadrons. Just isn't too healthy to do otherwise.

Into the jaws of the Doom Pussy.....

So I get this call from AlleyCat, the Airborne Command, Comm and Control (ABCCC) bird. I am orbiting in southern Laos (Tigerhound) at 15 K on one engine. Real dark night, no moon and I ain't carrying flares. Callsign is 'Dragon'.

I press on up to the rendezvous to meet Blindbat, a flare-dropping C-30 that has good night-vision sensors. There's a convoy of trucks coming down off the Bolevens Plateau to get on the main 'highway', then go south or further east. The place was just south and east of Tchepone.

A B-57 from Phan Rang has just dropped some 'funny bombs', WW2 incindiary doofers that were really cool.

Blindbat tells me the trucks are just to the edge of the burn pattern of the funny bombs. I had 2 x Mk-82 slicks and 4 x CBU 25 lineal dispensers. Figured the slicks were worthless, so I dropped them first. Killed some monkeys and made lottsa shredded trees.

Blindbat now drops a zillion flares and it's daylight! So I make first CBU pass, looking for the road. The Trail showed up really good when not under the jungle canopy - the limestone and sand stood out great.

Don't see squat, but just as I pull off I see the road to my left and some black dots on the road! Whoopeee!

Tell Blindbat I got Tally Ho and they tell me to drop all on next pass, as another B-57 is showing up.

Good, not great, roll-in and looking for the trucks. AHA! straight ahead. Use all four dispensers and there are a few hundred baseball-size bomblets raining down.

As I pull off, I get nose well up, then turn to look.

The CBU's are marching right down the road.

First truck goes boom! Second explodes, then third, then two more!!! Hell, I am a truck ace on one pass!!!

Blindbat tells me I got them all, then releases me to RTB. The B-57 troop coughs when Blindbat tells him to standby. There's a 'truck park' he needs hitting. The B-57 asks if that 'Dragon' got all the trucks. Blindbat says they're all gone.

As I climb out, the B-57 asks, "Just what kinda plane was that?" Blindbat tells him it's one of the new A-37's.

I felt like the good guy we all remember from the old Westerns when the townsfolk asked, 'who was that masked man?'. Heh heh....

One of my best, and I remember it clear as crystal to this day.

later,

By all accounts Gums, I've heard the Dragonfly was a great ride too. I've gotten one ride in the Tweet, and believe it or not folks, no BS here, we pulled NEARLY as many Gs as my 2 Viper rides! Of course, I did pull 9 1/2 both times in my Viper rides, but WOW! The Tweet can turn with the best of em guys! Around 7, I pulled in the Tweety Bird. Would love to get a Dragonfly ride. I might have to go to South America to hook that up though.

Quote:

As I climb out, the B-57 asks, "Just what kinda plane was that?" Blindbat tells him it's one of the new A-37's.

Gums,

Those are some great A-37 links. Awesome.

How much more power did the A-37 engines have over the T-37? Were the reasons for different engines on the A-37 power related or other practical reasons?

Thanks !

Dragonfly power was/is awesome. The big motors allowed the jet to get off a short runway when carrying 7000 or more pounds of gas and ordnance. Also let us get to a reasonable cruise altitude quickly and sustain a decent turn rate.

To wit:

T-37 has J-69's cranking out about 1000 pounds of thrust each.

Original A-37 had J-85's cranking out about 2750 pounds of thrust each.

Muuuhahhhaa!! Each A-37 motor put out almost 150% of what BOTH T-37 motors did!!!

Hence, we would shut down an engine to conserve fuel or get better range once light.

Only jets I flew that weren't powermongers were the T-33 and A-7D. My first, the F-101B, was a scalded dog. And the F-16.... well, you already know. So I was spoiled rotten.

more later,

The final version, the A-37B, had 2,850 lbs. of thrust on each engine, and a gross all-up weight of 14,000lbs., and a further 1,000 lbs could be had after aerial refueling, for a grand total of 15,000lbs. This gave the A-37B a useful load of 9,527 lbs...which is almost twice what the original A-37's gross weight of 5,000 lbs was!
I'm just spitting numbers out of the book though...I'm sure Gums has forgotten more than I know Wink

But as a tribute to you Gums, and to those that of you don't think 5,700 lbs of thrust isn't much.....

Going vertical in the YAT-37D, prototype to the A-37B..Cessna photo... Smile

Is there a civilian version of the T-37?

Forum: Military Aircraft of the Cold War

Military Demo Teams - A-37